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Sage and Simms at Costco?

39K views 210 replies 93 participants last post by  fredaevans 
#1 ·
Seen it today. Z axis 5 weight and some Tree-fiddy waders. In an upright glass case, like the rock and roll hall of fame would put an Elvis outfit in :rofl:
 
#33 ·
I worked at a fly shop here in Spokane in 1991. At the time REI was starting to expand and wishing they could get Sage and Simms. Cabelas wanted them too. The rep said then that would never happen. Famous last words.
What I don't get , and never will, is how indignant the average angler gets over this.
If you really believe that this quantity of product was distributed without the knowledge of Simms and Sage then there is a level of naivete here that is unimaginable.
 
#36 ·
My take on this is this:
The issue is not who sells the product, we are not going to control that. The issue is that authorized dealers are required by contract not to sell current merchandise below MSRP. Offers for free product if you buy at retail are still not alloowed as it is just another way of lowering the overall price of MSRP items.
As a fly shop we can compete with the big box stores and internet stores by offering expertise, service and knowledgeable staff if the prices are the same on the big ticket items. What will damage the fly shop's business is if there are lines of distribution that will allow the sale of product at less than MSRP. If Costco wants to sell at MSRP and agree to all of the terms that we as a Fly Shop agreed to so be it.
On the basis of service we will win that war.
Blessings
jesse
 
#38 ·
I can't belive that they would've changed their distribution rules for big-box stores - that would change their image and brand perception too much. They probably want to be seen as the type of brand you wouldn't find at Costco/Walmart/K Mart, but only at specialty fly shops. My guess is that they made a sale to someone slightly shady who turned around and sold everything to Costco.
 
#42 ·
Intersting comments here. I blame Simms and Sage for this, having said that, it is their right to sell to anyone of their choosing. When distribution is regulated, it is regulated by the manufacturer in just about every case. It is very naive to think that Costco purchased from someone other than the factory.
Sadly, I have seen the manufacturers of other items that were previously only sold in specialty stores, go to the big box stores with the same or "slightly modified" product only to realize what a huge mistake it was. The result was a pissed off distribution chain and some very agitated dealers. Ultimately, the manufacturer ended up out of business with pretty much no place to sell his goods.
It is unlikley we will see these products in Wal-Mart and it is highly unlikley they will be in Costco for very long.
Does it matter, should we care? Absolutely, support the local fly shop, they have the expertise, the most important commodity, knowledge, and they are doing the fishing community a service by being there. Every time some local shop closes up we lose an expert or a group of them. These guys work hard and are passionate about the sport, they love what they do and more often than not are a involved in the community promoting the sport and the steward ship of the resource.
When the local guy is gone you get Cabela's and Wally World? Is that wat this will come to?
No, not for me, this matters, it is a big deal, a very big deal.
Support your local fly shop, forget Cabela's and Costco and reward the guy who helped you get where you are today.
Just sayin'..
 
#47 ·
+1 on that. 3 pages of typing just to type...If anyone gave half a pinch of shit they could call someone at any of the companies involved, or we could just continue to bitch and moan about how the evil Costco is going to run my local fly shop out of business with their offering of a whopping 2 products (that I wasn't going to buy anyway.)
 
#45 ·
Look at what happened to The North Face. They used to be the premier outdoor gear company and their products were the only ones going to the top of Everest. They were great. They kept weakening their brand and making the products worse until now when you can buy them anywhere but no one wants to. Others have stepped into their place to fill the need for high end performance based products.
 
#49 ·
Does anyone ever feel bad about buying a tv at Costco rather than a smaller "authorized retailer" of the brand?
I'm shocked, shocked that you could even think that any of us could be hypocritical!

Support your local TV store! (That is, if you can even find one!)

K
 
#50 ·
Let me add some to the conversation here, just having got off the phone with my local Simms representative. What's being sold at Costco was being done so without authorization from Simms - a distributor sold it to Costco without Simms' knowledge.

That price tag you see for the waders - Simms is going into each store and buying them back at FULL RETAIL.

It's unfortunate, but they're doing what they should to remedy the situation. As for Sage, I can't speak to that.

Derek
 
#58 ·
It's unfortunate, but they're doing what they should to remedy the situation.
Reality isn't so cut and dry. One can still go down to Outdoor Emporium, a 'local' company that doesn't have knowledgable (fly) staff and doesn't pay/compensate their employees dick, and buy Simms for MSRP. Because Costco didn't honor MSRP they can no longer sell said items, even though they take care of their employees and offer them a liveable wage. In this situation who benefits from the protectionist measures?

Not that ayone cares, but I'm not buying that in this economy someone just snuck a ton of product out of the warehouse without the manufacturers or reps knowing it happened.
 
#60 ·
So everyone's knickers are in a twist because Sage and Simms products were spotted at Costco. How different is that than being able to buy products from the same two manufacturers at Cabelas? Splitting hairs over the difference between Costco and Cabelas is kinda like insisting your teenage daughter is only a little bit pregnant.

K
 
#64 ·
My local shop carries both of those items and sells them at the MSRP, a practice I think is strongly regulated by both companies. Agreed, once you deal with one big box store your reputation as being a supporter of the local shop is tainted. Great products, overpriced because some can afford to pay for them. Now that they are at Costco, what is next? I hate to see these types of things everywhere. I like going to the local shop for such items when the time and savings supports it.
 
#66 ·
Come on Kent, you're killing me here! Great stuff and I couldn't agree more. I was once an avid purchaser of outdoor equipment (my garage sale will be the talk of this neck of the woods) but what stopped me, finally, was quality. For all that Patagonia talks about quality, their stuff is made in the same factories as North Face, Columbia (which owns many of the smaller labels like Mountain Hardware). After about the fifth felt boot peeling off weeks after purchase, I realized Patagonia is more about "brand" and less about quality. All hat no cattle. I am extremely sympathetic to small stores, local folks on main street trying to make a living. But so am I and I don't feel like I should pay "premium" for a brand rather than quality. If the quality is good, than I will still search for a good price, because probably more than Sage or Simms, I need to protect my finances! But I think it's a mistake to link brand with quality and place of sale with anything but what it is.

I mean, I could get in a snit about Patagonia being sold at REI, but I've long ago realized for these companies that churn out "new and improved" every year, it's more about the profit than it is the quality.

The issue isn't, in my opinion, that Sage or Simms is "forcing the small fly shop owner to sell at MSRP, it's that Sage and Simms have more power than the small fly shop owner and can impose their will on them. I'm with Kent on this. My guess is Sage and Simms are not making as much as they used to, they look at Costco as the ultimate "impulse buy" place ("Look, honey, this must be a bargain, it's at Costco, and ya' know, I've always wanted to fly fish..."), so why not try it?

Sorry to be so cynical.
 
#67 ·
Long time no post Kim - thanks for weighing in on this one. Your comparisons of 'brands' vs. 'quality' and 'all hat' vs. 'no cattle' are spot on IMHO. Predicting consumer behavior is less science than it is art, so there's a lot of trial and error that goes on as companies struggle to hit the mark. If Costco moved rods and waders the same way it does TVs, the average fly shop would end up going the same way as the TV store.

Let me know when you have that garage sale - I wanna be one of the first in line!

K
 
#69 ·
I saw this deal at my local Costco here in Utah a couple of weeks ago. I really doubt that Sage and Simms knew nothing of it. My bet, at least for Sage, is that the Z-axis is probably discontinued at the end of this year in favor of some new Nano-silica impregnated $800 replacement stick and this was just the first wave of a clearance sale. The Costco only had 9' 5wt rods, which incidentally is probably the rod that Sage has the most of lying around because it is the most popular and they made a million of them. Seems logical that they would start dumping them.

I don't know anything about the Simms waders and I really don't care enough to call the manufacturer but it seems that every year, Costco sells very limited runs of high end stuff for a very short time (while supplies last) in a variety of genres and my bet is that Simms was a willing participant in the event.
 
#70 ·
Don't worry Kent, I'll PM you when the garage/basement sale happens!

As I continue to think about it, really, I think we all would be astounded to see the profit margins many of these outdoor "manufacturers" make. It's hard for me to call them manufacturers, since most of them don't "make" what some poorly paid Vietnamese child sews their label on. Probably costs more to unload the containers at Port of Long Beach or Port of Seattle with union labor than it does to buy the raw materials, assemble, crate, and ship! And while Sage assembles their high end rods in the US (do we know that?) Simms sure doesn't make their waders here. So, what you're paying $500 for more than likely cost Simms....? If they were worried about "the brand," they would worry about the quality. But why worry when it costs so little you can easily replace it.

I think of my good friend, Dave Lewis, who would rail about guarantees for rods. I used to argue with him, saying I loved the Patagonia guarantee until it dawned on me that the guarantee cost them far far far less than it would to actually make a quality product. Make sense?
 
#84 ·
Don't worry Kent, I'll PM you when the garage/basement sale happens!

As I continue to think about it, really, I think we all would be astounded to see the profit margins many of these outdoor "manufacturers" make. It's hard for me to call them manufacturers, since most of them don't "make" what some poorly paid Vietnamese child sews their label on. Probably costs more to unload the containers at Port of Long Beach or Port of Seattle with union labor than it does to buy the raw materials, assemble, crate, and ship! And while Sage assembles their high end rods in the US (do we know that?) Simms sure doesn't make their waders here. So, what you're paying $500 for more than likely cost Simms....? If they were worried about "the brand," they would worry about the quality. But why worry when it costs so little you can easily replace it.

I think of my good friend, Dave Lewis, who would rail about guarantees for rods. I used to argue with him, saying I loved the Patagonia guarantee until it dawned on me that the guarantee cost them far far far less than it would to actually make a quality product. Make sense?
I remember reading, about 6 or 7 years ago, that nike's median priced shoe cost them about $7.60 to put on the shelf. Haven't worn a pair since! But hey, I'm a cheap f*cker!
 
#91 ·
Don't worry Kent, I'll PM you when the garage/basement sale happens!

As I continue to think about it, really, I think we all would be astounded to see the profit margins many of these outdoor "manufacturers" make. It's hard for me to call them manufacturers, since most of them don't "make" what some poorly paid Vietnamese child sews their label on. Probably costs more to unload the containers at Port of Long Beach or Port of Seattle with union labor than it does to buy the raw materials, assemble, crate, and ship! And while Sage assembles their high end rods in the US (do we know that?) Simms sure doesn't make their waders here. So, what you're paying $500 for more than likely cost Simms....? If they were worried about "the brand," they would worry about the quality. But why worry when it costs so little you can easily replace it.

I think of my good friend, Dave Lewis, who would rail about guarantees for rods. I used to argue with him, saying I loved the Patagonia guarantee until it dawned on me that the guarantee cost them far far far less than it would to actually make a quality product. Make sense?
Kim - let me simply say - as someone who commutes between Washington and China - as someone who is intimately familiar with those brands - as someone who does QA inspections and walks those factory floors - you simply have no clue.
 
#71 ·
I'm not sure what, if anything, to think about a Sage rod and Simms wader being sold at Costco. Both companies have engaged in what used to be called price fixing since day one, offering strict contracts to their retailers about selling only at MSRP. Since that is anything but free market economics, having these products sold in Costco should be a good thing. And as Kent mentions, how is it different than these products being sold by Cabela's the last few years? It doesn't really affect me much. Every Sage and Simms product I have, which is more than I realize at times, was purchased at a discount, closeout, or used for the very reason that I considered them over-priced at MSRP. In fact I just got two Simms fishing shirts in the mail yesterday at a reasonable half price. I think I look more than fashionable fishing in last year's styles with closeout rods and reels. That business plan is working OK for me.

Sg
 
#73 ·
I'm not sure what, if anything, to think about a Sage rod and Simms wader being sold at Costco. Both companies have engaged in what used to be called price fixing since day one, offering strict contracts to their retailers about selling only at MSRP. Since that is anything but free market economics, having these products sold in Costco should be a good thing. And as Kent mentions, how is it different than these products being sold by Cabela's the last few years? It doesn't really affect me much. Sg
Yes, but I don't understand why people don't care that they still seem to be price fixing (not sure if that is the accurate term), and the only issue I have is that they still require shops to sell at MSRP, and not Costco. As a consumer I think it is great, but for the fly shops it isn't. That is my only problem. How can you or Kent say it is the same as selling at Cabelas, if even at Cabelas they are required to sell at MSRP, and Costco is not. That is how it is different.
Honestly, I do think it is actually a good thing to have this stuff at Costco, as long as the fly shops can discount as well.
 
#72 ·
If I owned a fly shop I think I would care a little bit about this, but not enough to stop selling Simms and Sage. They should let their dealers sell the product for the same price as Costco to stay competitive. It might even be a good thing for small retailers, people who have never thought about taking it up could buy a rod- then they're going to need about 1000 other things to actually go out and use the rod- they can't get all that stuff at Costco.
 
#76 ·
Lots of thoughts on this for me on this topic...probably won't share most of them.

Question for those who bring up the point about "supporting your local fly shop". Would you buy a rod or pair of waders at your local shop, knowing that you can get the same thing for hundreds less at Costco?
 
#85 ·
Lots of thoughts on this for me on this topic...probably won't share most of them.

Question for those who bring up the point about "supporting your local fly shop". Would you buy a rod or pair of waders at your local shop, knowing that you can get the same thing for hundreds less at Costco?
ABSOLUTELY, and I have. Bought two BIIx rods at the Silver Bow Fly Shop. I could have saved $317 on those two rods buying them online - new. I chose to support Sean. I don't even know how that place online was able to sell them cheaper. I thought Winston didn't allow that kind of thing.

I buy a few flies there when I don't have time to tie, and supplies that I could get at "the box" stores. No, I'm not loaded but I support Sean when I can. They supply things that a big store can't.

I caught the fish of a lifetime last year, and had two back-to-back double digit stealhead days, they shared in my joy as I retold the stories. Can't get that online or at Costco.....but you can at a local fly shop.

The other fly shop, Westslope Fly Shop does the same. You won't find the kind of guys, Jesse and Jon from Westslope at Costco either. 98.7% of the time you're going to save maybe a few dollars on most of your purchases at a box store.

And no, I don't work for a fly shop either.
 
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