Are overweight lines getting out of control?

Rob Allen

Active Member
#16
What really hasn't been touched on was that the "old" AFTMA stuff was for earlier generation fly rods. We've been hacking around this for years about the newer rod technology and why companies constantly bring out new rods. I think we've arrived at the point where we realize that in order to stay in business the companies have to do it to stay competitive. The change in the line recommendations represent the change in the rods over twenty years ago. Almost every rod is so much faster, stiffer; you fill in the adjective. The charts/line weights merely represent the needed poundage to turn over flies on the new rods. That's why guys are constantly overlining them with their older lines. Think about it...:eek:


umm too bad most new rods are not better than they were 20 years ago.. just stiffer and lighter.. Things were perfect before now they are worse and as a result of some manufacturers marketing campaigns the whole industry is screwed up.. leading to the mass confusion of everyone who hasn't been around a while.


buy a double taper and learn how to cast beyond the length of the head.
 
#17
Agreed. My favorite rod is a Sage LL 490-2 that I bought nearly thirty years ago, lined with a Cortland 444-SL. I've been lucky enough to land many over twenty inch trout and my first steelhead on it. It's my go to fly rod for trout.
 

Chucker

Chucking a dead parrot on a piece of string!
#18
What is now called a 5 weight rod is what used to be called a 7 or even an 8. So you need a heavier line to cast with it. Simple really. It really does all come down to rod and line companies whose main marketing strategy is "you can cast further with our X weight rod/line than with someone else's".

It's much better now if you understand rod loading and grain weight and head length etc. etc. No more having to cut up double tapers and level lines and splice them to get a decent head length on a weight forward line for distance.

But, if you are a beginner then you are SOL.
 

Drifter

Active Member
#19
My local shop uses the S.A. GPX lines for all rod testing. Being a 1/2 line heavy it's pretty easy to tell if you need to up line a rod just a little or a full line from using the GPX as the test line! And of course if it's to heavy by just a bit than down line a half or full line!

Now with the long head length weight forwards this gets trickier because the further the weight in the head gets from the rod tip the heavier it's going to get while casting longer back and forward cast. I grew up using double tapers and hated weight forward lines because the head was so short you could not carry much line in the air for false casting.

Now you have all these very good long head lines like =
Nymph lines
steelhead tapers
expert distance (competition casting lines)
45 to 50 foot weight forwards as normal

Wish we had these in the 70's and 80's - yes it can be a pain but the benefits are much greater today than years past.

When going through relining and lining old and new rods I contacted S.A. and told them they needed to start putting the grain weights for their lines on their website like RIO was doing and that they maybe losing sales because of it! The next month they were listed - Don't know if it was me that helped them change and put the grain weights up but at least they did!

Anyway good luck!!!
 
#20
buy a double taper and learn how to cast beyond the length of the head.
funny you mention this, I just picked up a DT for my 6wt Steffen....oh, how I've missed that. I can't believe I strayed for several years.

really though, there's no substitute for decent (or better) casting form (I only say decent because I feel like mine is decent, not the best, but not shitty either). A crappy caster isn't going be helped much with the "extra distance" or whatever...line out there.

That said, specialty lines DO have their place.
 
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#23
Maybe should just stamp reccomended grain weights on the shaft. I have a switch built on a 5wt single hand blank that has the grains listed also. 140 - 210 if I recall correctly. Most builders provide the grain reccomendations on a rod even if it is not stamped on the shaft. But the caster is such a variable, that the "this rod and this line will work for everyone" is not really possible. I quit adjusting my casting to accomodate the rod and line some time ago. It's why I have favorite setups I rarely stray from. They let me be me.
Agree 100 percent. Time to move away from a line weight number. Now rod manufactures should pring a grain weight recommendation on rods
 

Porter

Active Member
#26
Agree 100 percent. Time to move away from a line weight number. Now rod manufactures should pring a grain weight recommendation on rods
That’s is one idea.
Why do you all want to get so testicle. It's only fishing with artificial bugs To fool a fish to take it and then you play with it.
Getting testicle? Is that like being a dickhead? Or a different way of being annal?
 
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Rob Allen

Active Member
#27
What really hasn't been touched on was that the "old" AFTMA stuff was for earlier generation fly rods. We've been hacking around this for years about the newer rod technology and why companies constantly bring out new rods. I think we've arrived at the point where we realize that in order to stay in business the companies have to do it to stay competitive. The change in the line recommendations represent the change in the rods over twenty years ago. Almost every rod is so much faster, stiffer; you fill in the adjective. The charts/line weights merely represent the needed poundage to turn over flies on the new rods. That's why guys are constantly overlining them with their older lines. Think about it...:eek:
The problem is that these new faster lighter rods don't perform any better than the old stuff and in many cases the older models are far superior. Too bad rod manufacturers are marketing driven and not driven by quality and performance.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#28
What is now called a 5 weight rod is what used to be called a 7 or even an 8. So you need a heavier line to cast with it.

But, if you are a beginner then you are SOL.
this is partly true. a typical modern fast action 5 wt may cast better with the grains of a 7 wt line but it is not structurally sound as used as a 7 wt rod.
for instance just because a modern 5 wt casts a wf 7 perfectly does not mean it has enough graphite strength in it to use it as say a summer steelhead rod.

there is a big difference between what line a rod casts and the job it is able to do.

you see this in spey rods especially. guys will say my 12' 6 wt throws my intruder and sink tip just fine on a skagit head but there isn't a 6 wt spey rod on the market that should be used for winter steelhead. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.
 

Porter

Active Member
#29
The problem is that these new faster lighter rods don't perform any better than the old stuff and in many cases the older models are far superior. Too bad rod manufacturers are marketing driven and not driven by quality and performance.
In what ways? I can understand some older rods doing some things better than their next generation rod but when you skip 3-4 generations it’s easy to detect the amazing improvements, and especially the reductions in swing weight.
 

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