Are overweight lines getting out of control?

Old Man

Just an Old Man
#46
Every time I see a new rod I think to myself. Do I really need a new rod. The answer is no, use what you have and be happy. And since I have turned into a only go out when it's warm outside fly slinger. I only use my 2 3wt's and a 4wt.
 

Buzzy

Active Member
#47
Every time I see a new rod I think to myself. Do I really need a new rod. The answer is no...................
I know @Old Man and I are moving away from the original post but Jim's comment above does enter my thoughts. I've been giving those thoughts (when my grey matter is somewhat functional) about why am I really thinking about a new 4 weight. Well the answer is that I don't have a 4 weight. Do I need it? Yes. No. But sure seems like a great weight for midge fishing local stillwaters.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#48
I would never argue that. Most of the rods I have are older e.g. RPLXi, RPL, LL,and I have a "Greenie" spey rod along with a couple of two piece rods. But to stay competitive almost all companies are "improving" the graphite and thus the performance of their specific rods.
The only improvement in materials is the resins. There has vern very littlle advancement in the actual fibers
And nothing that increases the stiffness over whats been available for over 20 years offers and performance advantage..
 
#49
This is simply the evolution of fly fishing equipment and the nomenclature to describe it. OLD MAN is right - it is 'testicular' - hormone driven marketing concepts. It did take balls to create the TCR rods and challenge the buyer to be good enough to use it. The only correct rod weight line was a competition distance line.
Whether its confusing or convenient the selection of lines provides the opportunity to find something that works with your equipment and casting capabilities.
 

GAT

Dumbfounded
#50
Actually, the number of specialty lines has gone nuts! When I first started fly fishing you had a choice of dry line, sinking line and a sink tip. That was it. I caught lots of fish with those options.

I do believe the clear intermediate sinking line was one of the best products the line companies came up with. That and the Deep Water Express. And the bass taper. Now, there is a huge range of lines for everything from carp to bluegill. Geezus. You honestly don't need that many different options for fly lines.

I suppose if you're into blue water flyfishing the specialty lines for that approach is justified but for typical inland flyfishing I don't believe you need a ton of options.

These days, I primarily fish stillwaters. I have a dry line. An intermediate sinking clear line and two different rates of full sinking lines. That's it. That's all I need. I catch lots of fish so I see no reason to add line after line after line just because the line manufacturers continue to come up with something a tad different than what they made before.
 
#51
Well, my 3D line (hover/Type 2/Type 4) from SA coming in at 380 grains is fucking money for throwing big fucking flies for big fucking toothy predators on a 10wt...soooo, NO, lines are NOT getting out of control. Believe it or not, many of them actually serve a purpose...

Cheers!
 
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#52
The only improvement in materials is the resins. There has vern very littlle advancement in the actual fibers
And nothing that increases the stiffness over whats been available for over 20 years offers and performance advantage..
Hate to disagree but I've been to the Sage factory several times. Last time while speaking with the guys there, I was told that they update the fibers whenever they can and that Boeing has some newer fibers that they have been using. I have no idea how accurate that is but the fibers have changed with the technologies of the aircraft industry. They used to say they could replace any rod they ever built because of the materials. Now it's a bit different because the stock of older fibers has run out or no longer relevant. Again, I have no idea how accurate that is but in the end, none of this matters anyway.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#53
Hate to disagree but I've been to the Sage factory several times. Last time while speaking with the guys there, I was told that they update the fibers whenever they can and that Boeing has some newer fibers that they have been using. I have no idea how accurate that is but the fibers have changed with the technologies of the aircraft industry. They used to say they could replace any rod they ever built because of the materials. Now it's a bit different because the stock of older fibers has run out or no longer relevant. Again, I have no idea how accurate that is but in the end, none of this matters anyway.
They may update their fibers the question is do those fibers create better rods than could be made with older fibers?
 

Buzzy

Active Member
#54
They may update their fibers the question is do those fibers create better rods than could be made with older fibers?
Actually this is an interesting question. I'm sure the bamboo guys will tell you that their Tonkin cane rods have the perfect fiber. (I seem to recall that there was a real shortage of highly sought after Tonkin cane and that some folks were hoarding supplies....)

About 1979 I scored a Sage graphite blank and wrapped it up (GFL 890-2). By today's standards, this old rod was "tip heavy" (whatever that means) and, for sure, not fast action. But it was (and is) a fully functional fly rod.

I would think that @Steve Saville is right, carbon fiber technology is constantly evolving. Not sure that this evolution means fly rods are "better" - I think new and different certainly applies.
 
#55
Agreed. I have many older rods by Sage and have found that I prefer them over the newer ones. Could be from familiarity. I don't know but as it stands now, I'm closer top the end of my fly fishing than the beginning so I won't probably be buying any new rods. I'll probably be selling.
 

Buzzy

Active Member
#57
I'm sure if you could dredge up some posts from 20 or 30 years ago, you'd find a bunch of complaining about the "new" rods everyone celebrates as classics now.
Oh man! The early Sage I mentioned just above - I traveled a couple times from Kitsap Co. to Green Lake where one of the fly clubs (maybe even The Club) was sponsoring a casting clinic for beginners. One of the instructors saw that I had a "graphite" rod and that it was a "Sage". He asked to cast it and then grumbled a comment about "tip heavy" (whatever that means) and then proceeded to extol the virtues of split cane. Circa 1980 - I remember because it was right after Mount St. Helens blew.
 

Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater....Know Grizzler
#58
I find it funny that some folks continue to complain about overweighted lines.
I guess they must have never heard or seen shooting head systems.
It was a common practice for folks to overline rods with heads two or three weights heavier then their rod weights. Most any modern fly rod can handle some degree of overlining.
Now we have nice integrated single hand lines that accomplish the same thing without having to deal with the loops.
These overweight lines are designed to cover certain fishing situations. Don’t like them, don’t use them.
I for one am glad we have all the choices we have today as far as lines go.
I guess folks just need something to bitch about if something doesn’t fit into their narrow view of what fly lines should weigh.
Hopefully they didn’t have to call 911 when the first Skagit heads hit the market....and people are now using them on single handed rods.
Oh the blasphemy!!!!! :rolleyes:
SF
 
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#59
My go-to outfit is still my Fenwick 7'6 /3-weight I built in the late 80's, an old Orvis CFO I reel, and a Cortland 444 floating line from that same timeframe. It has become an intermediate fly line, and I still enjoy the outfit.

I have an old Pflueger loaded with a 4 weight sink-tip for back up.

That and a cheap long pack rod I bought off eBay 15 years ago pretty much cover my needs 95% of my fishing. A crusty 7 weight for Pyramid in Nevada and Jetty fishing off the coast pretty much round out arsenal. A couple broken rods mixed in.

SAGE never dropped anything in my tea : ). I see diamonds, glass and quartz all being pretty much the same, too.

The gear chase sounds fun, but I am too old school to want to keep up. My brother and I were tossing flies after little league practice in the mid-70's from the swimming dock on the local planter lake while 200 or more anglers on the banks and in boats thought we were nuts.
 
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quilbilly

Big Time Hater
#60
I find it funny that some folks continue to complain about overweighted lines.
I guess they must have never heard or seen shooting head systems.
It was a common practice for folks to overline rods with heads two or three weights heavier then their rod weights. Most any modern fly rod can handle some degree of overlining.
Now we have nice integrated single hand lines that accomplish the same thing without have to deal with the loops.
These overweight lines are designed to cover certain fishing situations. Don’t line them, don’t use them.
I for one am glad we have all the choices we have today as far as lines go.
I guess folks just need something to bitch about if something doesn’t fit into their narrow view of what flies lines should weigh.
Hopefully they didn’t have to call 911 when the first Skagit heads hit the market....and people are now using them on single handed rods.
Oh the blasphemy!!!!! :rolleyes:
SF
This....

With all the line choices today, if you feel the line is overweighted for you, buy a lighter one.....probably a bit harder than complaining on the internet, but just try and suck it up and buy the lighter line.

....or get a life.....

....or find something a bit more important to complain about.......

:)
 

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