Are overweight lines getting out of control?

Wyobee

Active Member
#76
I think swing weight has lot to do with stiffness, stiffer rods are going to transmit the force to the end of the more efficiently, the bend or flex is going to multiply the perceived force, via continued momentum, and multiply the weight. But that flex that is perceived as extra wieght is actually adding force to the fly line. To make up for the stiffness, and lack of flex, you actually have to move your arm faster, increasing its relative force and weight And from somebody who has elbow problems I can tell you moving your arm faster is more strain than moving your arm slower even if the rod itself is heavier. If only I hadn't been such a pot head in physics class I could show what I said in vectors of force and make you believe me even less.
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#77
I think swing weight has lot to do with stiffness, stiffer rods are going to transmit the force to the end of the more efficiently, the bend or flex is going to multiply the perceived force, via continued momentum, and multiply the weight. But that flex that is perceived as extra wieght is actually adding force to the fly line. To make up for the stiffness, and lack of flex, you actually have to move your arm faster, increasing its relative force and weight And from somebody who has elbow problems I can tell you moving your arm faster is more strain than moving your arm slower even if the rod itself is heavier. If only I hadn't been such a pot head in physics class I could show what I said in vectors of force and make you believe me even less.
The acceleration of the tip, by the deliberate and abrupt stop on the forward stroke, is what creates the real kinetic energy. It uncoils the lever to its max length, while snapping forward.
 

Porter

Active Member
#78
I've never been one to care much about weight in a fly rod but recently added a couple of Helios 3D six weights and they are so light its just mind blowing. Really makes a difference after a day on the sound making hundreds of casts.

I know swing weight is a different concept... These are just the first rods I've fished where I have really noticed the weight... Or lack thereof
9 footers?
 

Wyobee

Active Member
#80
The acceleration of the tip, by the deliberate and abrupt stop on the forward stroke, is what creates the real kinetic energy. It uncoils the lever to its max length, while snapping forward.
And I would say that is where the actual weight is, in the moment you stop, reverse direction or send your cast, and the faster you have to move, and the heavier the line needed to complete that cast the more strain and wieght you are experiencing, if you dont believe me try stopping a hammer mid swing.. Of course, and I'm sure you know this, you can completely negate that fast heavy swing with a single or double haul, it's like discovering an air nailer.
 
#81
Swing weight has always been a real thing.

Personally, I've always thought if it as weight distribution along the blank.

Plus, I'd much rather cast my 7'9" 5.5 oz. Bandit all day over any 10' 8 weight (most are 3.5-4 oz.). Sure is easier on the shoulder...why? Lower swing weight.

I mean, why else would my 6wt reels balance out the Bandit while some of my 8wt reels still don't balance out my 9' 7wt graphite (3.2 physical weight)?

Personally, I've cast a few Burkie's...they've never done it for me. IMO, there are far better rods at that price point out there.
 
#83
Your building quite a nice arsenal of rods or should I say quiver of rods. Curious what lines you using on them?

So far I've only fished Airflo 40+ type 3, 5, and 7 along with the Airflo Beach Line... All in six weights.

These rods really love the 40+ lines. Very smooth, effortless casts. Insanely accurate with little effort. You just kinda look where you want it to go and it zips it right there. Even with the type 7 it is just as smooth, no clunkiness at all.

The six weight Beach line isn't as nice of a match. It feels a little light and seems to want more line out to load up than the 40+. Im going to pick one up in a seven weight and I think that will be a better fit.
 
#84
A rod that flexes deeply with relative ease but recovers very quickly requires less energy from the caster. A good rod pretty much casts itself and your arm is just along for the ride. The load on the rod should come from the weight of the line not the force the caster putd into the rod.

This is less fatiguing even if the rod has more swing weight. You get higher line speed with less effort.
 

Skip Enge

Uck Uck Uck, bitches
#85
A rod that flexes deeply with relative ease but recovers very quickly requires less energy from the caster. A good rod pretty much casts itself and your arm is just along for the ride. The load on the rod should come from the weight of the line not the force the caster putd into the rod.

This is less fatiguing even if the rod has more swing weight. You get higher line speed with less effort.
That stuff is on the learning curve i never truly understood...Definitely worn myself out casting for the lack of the correct line to balance effort in the fall season... but lines have gotten so expensive...So i generally go with what i got...
 
#86
That stuff is on the learning curve i never truly understood...Definitely worn myself out casting for the lack of the correct line to balance effort in the fall season... but lines have gotten so expensive...So i generally go with what i got...
I don't blame you for that. I think 100 bucks is a ton of money for a fly line but at the same time i used to word foe a place that sells thousand dollar fly rods and I don't think they are over priced.
 
#87
Just wondering if anyone watched the video that started this thread back up. It gives a very good explanation of why different lines are different weights and head lengths.
It should also be mentioned that the variety of gear options available today increases the value of a local fly shop. The line is the most important tool in your casting. Many people struggle with their casting for years, simply because their line is not matched to their rod AND the type of fishing they are doing AND the casting style of the angler. If you haven't spent years of your life learning the intricacies of which line tapers perform best in specific fishing situations with specific gear, it's unlikely that you will get the right line on your first try. I have never run into anyone working at a big box store (like Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse) who could properly match a spey rod with the right head for more than 1 or 2 local situations that they are familiar with. Local fly shops, particularly shops with good travel programs, tend to know this information much better - though even they are sometimes a little off.

I regularly tell people that the most critical component of your fly fishing outfit to spend more money on is the line - even if that means getting a less expensive rod. Put the wrong line for your fishing needs on a $1000 rod, and it won't perform very well. Put the right line on a good inexpensive rod, and it will perform quite well - there really are more good rods on the market today than bad, no matter what price. The frustrations expressed here appear to be a symptom of overwhelming options - which is good, we have the ability to customize our outfits very specifically to any situation we could imagine. If you're unsure about what to get, all you have to do is ask your local shop, or casting instructor (FFI lists them on their website), or call one of the line manufacturers.
 
#88
Just wondering if anyone watched the video that started this thread back up. It gives a very good explanation of why different lines are different weights and head lengths.
It should also be mentioned that the variety of gear options available today increases the value of a local fly shop. The line is the most important tool in your casting. Many people struggle with their casting for years, simply because their line is not matched to their rod AND the type of fishing they are doing AND the casting style of the angler. If you haven't spent years of your life learning the intricacies of which line tapers perform best in specific fishing situations with specific gear, it's unlikely that you will get the right line on your first try. I have never run into anyone working at a big box store (like Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse) who could properly match a spey rod with the right head for more than 1 or 2 local situations that they are familiar with. Local fly shops, particularly shops with good travel programs, tend to know this information much better - though even they are sometimes a little off.

I regularly tell people that the most critical component of your fly fishing outfit to spend more money on is the line - even if that means getting a less expensive rod. Put the wrong line for your fishing needs on a $1000 rod, and it won't perform very well. Put the right line on a good inexpensive rod, and it will perform quite well - there really are more good rods on the market today than bad, no matter what price. The frustrations expressed here appear to be a symptom of overwhelming options - which is good, we have the ability to customize our outfits very specifically to any situation we could imagine. If you're unsure about what to get, all you have to do is ask your local shop, or casting instructor (FFI lists them on their website), or call one of the line manufacturers.
As soon as someone makes a line bettet than the cortland 444 I'll pay more for a line.
Rio sure isn't doing it.
 

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