Ethics Question

Dewayne

Active Member
#32
Huhh!!!?? If you mow not, they will come.

People around here don't waste time or space allowing such a scourge on personal property. Besides, they grow next to every sidewalk that isn't maintained. I have enough death bottled in my garage to freak out EPA and hazmat armies. I believe in IPM and follow it to an extent.
The berries are the size of your thumb and seriously sell for about $3 for a cup in some parts of the country. We aren't taking about the same plant. These are seedless, thornless etc. But even most of the fancy commercial varieties are invasive as hell. You need chemicals or a Bobcat skidsteer to completely kill one. A machete sure isn't going to do anything permanent.
 

River Pig

Active Member
#33
I was just thinking about this this weekend. There's a creek that runs from outside Olympia down to the Chehalis and I have read that in the fur trapping days it was a highway between Puget Sound and Grays Harbor (via the Chehalis). However, now it's a totally overgrown swamp above Rochester and there's no way to get though in any kind of watercraft. Interesting to think that the natives and trappers probably kept it clear for travel and now it's probably "wilder" and less traveled than in the 1800's.
 

Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout forever
#34
I was just thinking about this this weekend. There's a creek that runs from outside Olympia down to the Chehalis and I have read that in the fur trapping days it was a highway between Puget Sound and Grays Harbor (via the Chehalis). However, now it's a totally overgrown swamp above Rochester and there's no way to get though in any kind of watercraft. Interesting to think that the natives and trappers probably kept it clear for travel and now it's probably "wilder" and less traveled than in the 1800's.
I am guessing it is Black River and it is navigable for most of the way from Black Lake/Puget Sound area to the Chehalis River at the reservation on down to the ocean.
 

Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout forever
#36
You are correct sir. Is it really? The water above Rochester looks impassable but I've never pushed beyond that.
The road that follows Black River has many pullouts and even a place that rents canoes.
I personally have not floated it but it looks like decent water and even looks fishy !

It might get brushy and small up above Littlerock-not sure.

http://www.willhiteweb.com/washington_kayak_trips/black_river/rochester_023.htm

It is an area where the Olympic Mudminnow occasionally floods back into the Puget Sound Basin.

Kamilche would be another divide between the sound and the ocean-side. Seems to be a natural spot of travel for natives and early travel too.
 
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Preston

Active Member
#37
The Himalaya blackberry (originally Himalayan Giant) is a hybrid developed by Luther Burbank and bred of a species from Nepal and one from the Middle East. Burbank's company marketed the variety enthusiastically in the northwest, not only as a fruit but a natural barrier to cattle. It was widely cultivated and birds did the rest. Impenetrable thickets of this highly-invasive and extremely hardy cultivar have rendered thousands acres of western Washington and Oregon unusable without intensive eradication and continuous maintenance.

Gene, there are several native, wild blackberries; the most common (throughout western Washington and Oregon) is a low, creeping vine, with canes rarely larger than a pencil, and small, intensely-flavored berries. It is a pioneer species, proliferating in open areas (burns, clearcuts), the fruit is highly prized for jams and jellies.
 
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Preston

Active Member
#38
Not wanting to be responsible for spreading bad information, I went back to the web recently to find that much of what I said above is no longer accepted as fact. The Himalaya blackberry was introduced and promoted (especially in the northwest) by Luther Burbank, but it is now identified as Rubus armeniacus, a species from the Middle East, common now in Europe and elsewhere. Originally highly prized for its large and abundant fruit it has, of course, proven to be a very much mixed blessing, the area's most invasive 'noxious weed'. The Evergreen blackberry, Rubus laciniatus, our other invasive non-native, is an introduction from northern and central Europe. The Pacific coast's native blackberry is Rubus ursinus (another 'bear berry') which, as noted above, is highly regarded for its superior fruit. Many traditional foragers disparage the Himalaya and Evergreen blackberries as 'ditch berries', reserving their respect for the little native.
 
#39
I was the first to use the trail I take back to one of my favorite spots and it was over grown with raspberry and blackberry bushes. In the past it was pretty well used. Would it be frowned upon if macheted that crap out?
No problem. A trail unmaintained will cease to be a trail. Start your work like thirty feet in though as to be stealth and secret.
 

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