NFR Wild Sky Indeed. Liquid Landfill Comin' Atcha This Spring!

Philonius

WFF Supporter
.....So the land owner refused to do anything about the problem on his property, and refused (for some time) to sign the no trespassing order so the executive branch of local government could do something about it.

would this be a basis for condemning the landowners property, and might that possibility motivate the landowner?.......

This seems to be one place where there may be real, practical room for improvement. Landowners should have some degree of responsibility, and if they don't, make it possible for authorities to declare a nuisance and allow LEO to do something.......

But then we're back to the question; what can they do? Here in the big nasty city, a major part of the problem is on DOT property, and goodness knows DOT would love to clean up the mess. They've tried fencing of large areas around the freeways and people always get through. (Border wall anyone?)

My wife's family lived on a sizable piece of property near Black Diamond. After her parents had to move to assisted living, it didn't take long for the tweakers to settle into the empty house. We got calls from WSP telling us that we had better do something, that they did Not want to have to deal with it, and that doing so would involve going in paramilitary style. The only solution was to demo all of the structures and leave nothing attractive to "vermin."
 
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Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
I'll preface by saying that I'm about as non-violent a person as you'll ever meet. I'm also a pragmatist when it comes to problem solving. I can't solve this problem, but I know how to significantly reduce it. LE and the justice system tells us that about 90% of the crime is committed by repeat offenders. 90%. That's like nearly all of the crime.

That's why I think modification of the legal framework is in order. The number one duty of a society is to protect itself from harm. The law allows us to use lethal force only when "a reasonable person would conclude" that it is necessary to prevent imminent personal injury or death, or that of persons nearby. That's way too lenient, and the justice system has evolved to where it rewards crime. I think that's why crime is so popular among those repeat offenders; it's profitable. And a good way to pay for drugs.

Drug addicts won't stop stealing. They can't. However, if it were legal to shoot any offender who is caught breaking into a car, garage, storage shed, house, etc., the number of offenders would be diminished, although not depleted. After a couple years, only the stealthiest of criminals would still be around.

Society could decide to make crime less profitable and potentially lethally dangerous. Tough justice wouldn't rehabilitate many addicts and criminals, but it would sure remove most of them. How would that be a bad thing?
 
B

bennysbuddy

It's pretty easy to suggest a vague Get Tough approach which will clean these wretches out once and for all, but what exactly does anyone think can/should be done? Unfortunately, one effect of living in a free society is that people to some degree have the right to be absolute jerks, idiots, losers, addicts, and filthy homeless bums. They are all that; disgusting and despicable, yet at the same time, quite pitiful. Years ago, many of these people would have been institutionalized, put in the "nut house," kept heavily sedated, and off the streets. That's not likely to return, so what is the alternative; prison?

I'm about as forgiving and open to allowing people to make their own choices as they come, but it's clear that things have gotten out of hand. Every day here in Seattlopolis I see the ratty tents, the hillsides strewn with trash, the litter everywhere, the associated petty crime, the sad wasted lives, and wish something could be done. So what is it?

Law enforcement can't deal with the sheer volume of the problem, and the legal means to make people behave like decent human beings is very limited. Shall we do something like is going on in the Philippines where the government is coming down very hard on drug addicts? http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...o-drug-addicts-surrender-or-risk-being-killed

I turns out, they can't handle the number of addicts there either, and in many cases, the PoPo just kill them. I'd sure like to see this problem go away, but is that what we want here? You know how to deal with this, let's hear it. Maybe Roper is right, purification by fire?

I think they should round them up and deliver them to Seattle where they have the means & facility's to treat them
 

wetline dave

Active Member
Benny,

Seattle has neither the means nor the facilities to handle the homeless. The cities solution is let them camp out on public property spewing garbage and what ever and let them be. They have "rights" you know and we as citizens need to be compassionate and understanding when they break into our property to steal to support habits.

There is a day laborer hiring business just a bit north of where the I90/Rainier ave tent camp is located. I frequently have a need to go through the area and one day I stopped in to talk to the people recruiting workers for day labor. My question was, "how many people from the tent camp come in looking for a job?" Almost none the lady told me. How many jobs can you fill in a given day on the average and she said probably 65 on the low end, and we fill maybe 25 to 35 on a daily basis and many of the jobs could become full time. How much in general is the pay?, and she replied from 12 to 18 dollars an hour and in some cases more if it became a permanent position. Why aren't the tent people coming in for work I asked? Because they don't need to, she said.

This in my mind is a very sad commentary.
 
B

bennysbuddy

Benny,

Seattle has neither the means nor the facilities to handle the homeless. The cities solution is let them camp out on public property spewing garbage and what ever and let them be. They have "rights" you know and we as citizens need to be compassionate and understanding when they break into our property to steal to support habits.

There is a day laborer hiring business just a bit north of where the I90/Rainier ave tent camp is located. I frequently have a need to go through the area and one day I stopped in to talk to the people recruiting workers for day labor. My question was, "how many people from the tent camp come in looking for a job?" Almost none the lady told me. How many jobs can you fill in a given day on the average and she said probably 65 on the low end, and we fill maybe 25 to 35 on a daily basis and many of the jobs could become full time. How much in general is the pay?, and she replied from 12 to 18 dollars an hour and in some cases more if it became a permanent position. Why aren't the tent people coming in for work I asked? Because they don't need to, she said.

This in my mind is a very sad commentary.[/QUOTE

Seattle is a progressive & sanctuary city & they have a needle exchange program, therefore the city is the best place for drug addicts were they are surrounded by compassionate wealthy people to pan handle from
 

jersey

livin' the dream
Would the property owner, who is "hiring" these folks, be liable for any standard Labor Law practices? Someone here must dabble in this knowledge area.

If Capone went down for Tax evasion, there may be something here for a verbal employment contract kind of thing?
 

Chris Johnson

Active Member
Petty theft in middle east countries is low. When people realize their are consequences for certain actions, they behave differently. Our prison systems have become a complete joke. Many repeat offenders time their actions such that if they get caught, they head for jail during winter months - time to get medical and dental work done, hit the weights, catch up on reading, etc. Their was a 60 Minutes episode years ago on this very situation. Perhaps if the time served was hard labor, without all the modern luxuries, the thought of going back would be a deterrent.
That's a big pile of horse shit.
 

Chris Johnson

Active Member
Would the property owner, who is "hiring" these folks, be liable for any standard Labor Law practices? Someone here must dabble in this knowledge area.

If Capone went down for Tax evasion, there may be something here for a verbal employment contract kind of thing?
If you could prove he was paying people cash and not paying taxes.
 

Chris Johnson

Active Member
We as a nation already have a higher percentage of our population incarcerated than any developed nation. There are no simple solutions to these problems, if there were they would be dealt with already. Most of these "solutions" put forth in this thread deal with symptoms of larger problems in our society, attacking the symptoms will not fix the problems (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure). How long has the " war on drugs" been going on? 40 years, it doesn't work and never will. It's supply and demand, if there is a demand there will be a supply. Reduce the demand and the supply goes away. Lock em' all up you say, well you better start building more prisons cause they're makin' new addict every day. And our constitution pretty much forbids summary executions so that's not an option. Change the conditions that cause the problems. Playing the long game might be expensive to begin with, but over time will be cheaper, and more humane.
 

jersey

livin' the dream
We as a nation already have a higher percentage of our population incarcerated than any developed nation. There are no simple solutions to these problems, if there were they would be dealt with already. Most of these "solutions" put forth in this thread deal with symptoms of larger problems in our society, attacking the symptoms will not fix the problems (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure). How long has the " war on drugs" been going on? 40 years, it doesn't work and never will. It's supply and demand, if there is a demand there will be a supply. Reduce the demand and the supply goes away. Lock em' all up you say, well you better start building more prisons cause they're makin' new addict every day. And our constitution pretty much forbids summary executions so that's not an option. Change the conditions that cause the problems. Playing the long game might be expensive to begin with, but over time will be cheaper, and more humane.

What if we just chopped off the hands of thieves, dealers, or distributors? It's worth a shot for a few months...as long as a sun-set on the dismemberment is unannounced. PD carries a kuhkri knife and some hydrogen peroxide.

What better news for censationalism? It would literally be a feeding frenzy.

Next step would be doctors prescribing meds...pinky first offense, then ring finger, pointer finger third, finally the thumb at the appropriate knuckle.

Wishful thinking...to cease a problem of self--medication.

Rather discuss proper seating of Tippet knots. Long bad winter is taking a toll.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
There is none of that in Gold Bar, it's the county and state that will not prosacute anything or hold criminals acontable for their actions anymore. And are the ones giving them the access to their demise.

And just how many people do you think run for offices in small towns like G/B, a couple years ago the mayor was only 35 and lasted 2 yrs. Vancouver has the same problems as Seattle with large heroine problems that streach out to the burbs and to the hills.
A couple yrs ago it was all meth, now heroine has taken over and is 10x worse. It's up to the state to solve this, unfortunately the pussification of the U S wil not tolerate what needs to be done.

Government and law should look the other way and make it known. That way local citizens could handle the problem once and for all. People are too dependant on authorities dealing with policing things. The law gets offended when you do. Nobody cares about their area more than those who live there. It's those folks that should administer the sword or mercy at their discretion. Roper is right. Burn out the rats and sweep up the mess.
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
WFF Supporter
I'm pretty sure there is a pitchfork and torches solution to this one particular problem...
 

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