Puget Sound

Charles Sullivan

Active Member
The regs that allow wild coho retention in MA 10 and MA 11 still seem odd to me, while MA 9 has wild coho release required.
If you just look at the Snohomish, Stilly and Hood Canal, the forecast is for a combined 117K wild fish this year.
I understand the Snohomish is the driving force behind MA 9 wild coho release.
If you take the mid and Deep South, the combined forecast is for 27K wild fish.
It isn’t like the Green, Puyallup and Nisqually have been great wild coho producers for a long time. The Puyallup being the best with a forecast of 10K wild coho. The Green is a whopping 1,500 and the Nisqually is 3,200.

I’m not advocating for wild coho harvest in MA 9, but more so interested in what drives the decision they can be harvested in MA 10 and MA 11 for that matter.
The numbers, at least to me don’t justify wild coho retention in 10 or 11.
Have they just given up on mid and south sound wild coho?
If that is the case, how about giving up on wild Stilly chinook as well.
You can also harvest wild coho in MA 12 but not in MA 13.
SF
It is baffling when put that way.

The answer lies with the tribes, I believe. They enjoy the wipeout coho fisheries. They also enjoy leveraging Stilly Chinook for their own benefit. It get's back to the entirety of PS permitting and the state having little to no power. Certainly confusing.

Go Sox,
cds
 

Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater....Know Grizzler
I have caught 2 unclipped coho this year (in area 10) that had coded wire tags. They were both obviously hatchery fish, with missing other fins. There are lots of unclipped little coho out there!

Used to catch a number of unclipped coho with CWT’s in MA 9 years ago.
If I recall correctly they were marked for use in studies.
Which fin was clipped if you don’t mind sharing,
pectoral or pelvic?
SF
 

Chucker

Chucking a dead parrot on a piece of string!
Used to catch a number of unclipped coho with CWT’s in MA 9 years ago.
If I recall correctly they were marked for use in studies.
Which fin was clipped if you don’t mind sharing,
pectoral or pelvic?
SF

One had a missing dorsal, the other a missing pectoral. That’s not clipping, it’s probably an injury in the rearing pens. I have seen a fish with missing pelvic fins this year.
 

Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater....Know Grizzler
One had a missing dorsal, the other a missing pectoral. That’s not clipping, it’s probably an injury in the rearing pens. I have seen a fish with missing pelvic fins this year.

Thanks for the reply.
The reason I asked is just trying to possibly determine what hatchery facility they came from.
The various fins that are clipped was discussed a bit in this old post regarding the south sound coho study.
I wonder what kind of results of that study yielded. Anyone know?
SF

 

ffb

Active Member
Took the boat out today MA9. Lots of little guys around. My buddy and I both got nice fish that had adipose intact, before this guy decided to take a ride home with me. Nice day on the water, no pinks were harmed.
 

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Smalma

Active Member
One of the uses of coded wire tags (cwt)s to evaluate marked selective fisheries. To do so a portion of the clipped hatchery fish have code wires embedded as well as a smaller number of unclipped fish also receive code wire tags. Without those unclipped hatchery fish with code wire tags we would not have marked selective fisheries and would be fishing even less.

That center sound resident coho fishery is a classic mixed stock fishery with coho any corners of the sound showing up in the catch. In 2019 June fishery resident coho fishery the State reported 17% of the CWTs recovered were from south sound net pens, 17 % were from north Sound stocks, 1% was from Hood Canal, 1% were from BC and the rest from the Green and Puyallup basins (and associated nets). Of those north Sound tags more than half were from either the Wallace or Tulalip hatchery programs (Snohomish stock) so it wild Snohomish coho should also be contributing to the catch.

Have also heard that at some of the tribal coho hatchery production recently have not been clipped so a higher portion of the population should be unclipped hatchery fish. Also consider in an area such as MA 9 when a more or less resident population is fish under mark selective rules the portion of unmarked fish will increase over time (the regulation is working). Since MA 9 opened on the 16th my best "guess" looking at the fish checks is that between 1,500 and 2,000 hatchery coho have been harvested in 10 days.

An interesting aside in that 2019 June MA 10 resident coho fishery was that single month accounted for 11% ( 7,327 out of a total of 64,467) of the entire recreational coho Puget Sound (MA 5 through MA 13) for 2019 - from WDFW 2019 sport catch report.

Curt
 

Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater....Know Grizzler
One of the uses of coded wire tags (cwt)s to evaluate marked selective fisheries. To do so a portion of the clipped hatchery fish have code wires embedded as well as a smaller number of unclipped fish also receive code wire tags. Without those unclipped hatchery fish with code wire tags we would not have marked selective fisheries and would be fishing even less.

That center sound resident coho fishery is a classic mixed stock fishery with coho any corners of the sound showing up in the catch. In 2019 June fishery resident coho fishery the State reported 17% of the CWTs recovered were from south sound net pens, 17 % were from north Sound stocks, 1% was from Hood Canal, 1% were from BC and the rest from the Green and Puyallup basins (and associated nets). Of those north Sound tags more than half were from either the Wallace or Tulalip hatchery programs (Snohomish stock) so it wild Snohomish coho should also be contributing to the catch.

Have also heard that at some of the tribal coho hatchery production recently have not been clipped so a higher portion of the population should be unclipped hatchery fish. Also consider in an area such as MA 9 when a more or less resident population is fish under mark selective rules the portion of unmarked fish will increase over time (the regulation is working). Since MA 9 opened on the 16th my best "guess" looking at the fish checks is that between 1,500 and 2,000 hatchery coho have been harvested in 10 days.

An interesting aside in that 2019 June MA 10 resident coho fishery was that single month accounted for 11% ( 7,327 out of a total of 64,467) of the entire recreational coho Puget Sound (MA 5 through MA 13) for 2019 - from WDFW 2019 sport catch report.

Curt

Curt,
Good info.
Do you know if every hatchery facility releases unclipped coho with coded wire tags or is it select hatchery programs that they do that for?
Thanks
SF
 

jasmillo

WFF Premium
One of the uses of coded wire tags (cwt)s to evaluate marked selective fisheries. To do so a portion of the clipped hatchery fish have code wires embedded as well as a smaller number of unclipped fish also receive code wire tags. Without those unclipped hatchery fish with code wire tags we would not have marked selective fisheries and would be fishing even less.

That center sound resident coho fishery is a classic mixed stock fishery with coho any corners of the sound showing up in the catch. In 2019 June fishery resident coho fishery the State reported 17% of the CWTs recovered were from south sound net pens, 17 % were from north Sound stocks, 1% was from Hood Canal, 1% were from BC and the rest from the Green and Puyallup basins (and associated nets). Of those north Sound tags more than half were from either the Wallace or Tulalip hatchery programs (Snohomish stock) so it wild Snohomish coho should also be contributing to the catch.

Have also heard that at some of the tribal coho hatchery production recently have not been clipped so a higher portion of the population should be unclipped hatchery fish. Also consider in an area such as MA 9 when a more or less resident population is fish under mark selective rules the portion of unmarked fish will increase over time (the regulation is working). Since MA 9 opened on the 16th my best "guess" looking at the fish checks is that between 1,500 and 2,000 hatchery coho have been harvested in 10 days.

An interesting aside in that 2019 June MA 10 resident coho fishery was that single month accounted for 11% ( 7,327 out of a total of 64,467) of the entire recreational coho Puget Sound (MA 5 through MA 13) for 2019 - from WDFW 2019 sport catch report.

Curt

Simple but makes a lot of sense. You cannot evaluate the effectiveness of marked fisheries if you are not able to see how many unmarked fish return to hatcheries/pens. You mentioned something else that caught my eye….the fact that unmarked fish will increase over time. There are a lot of unclipped shakers out there. Which makes sense. What about fish in the 2-5 lb range? Would we expect all those unclipped fish to return to hatcheries/pens this year to be harvested or could there be multiple release years represented in fish of that size range? In other words, could a 2-3 lb unclipped fish this year not return to a hatchery and be a 5-6 lb unclipped fish next. I ask because I wonder if the significant amount of bait observed in the sound over the last few hears is driving more unclipped rezzies to become “keeper sized” earlier in their life cycle. Also, if this is the case, can you give me a hint as to where I can find those unclipped 2-3 lb rezzies in January :).
 

Smalma

Active Member
SF-
I believe it is the case in Puget Sound that every hatchery program that is releasing adipose smolts with CWT will also release a smaller portion of unclipped fish with CWTs. For example a program of say 1.5 million might release 1.3 million clipped with CWTS and 200,000 unclipped fish with CWTs. The exact ratios may vary but if I recall correctly the release target of unclipped smolts with CWTs is in that 200,000 to 250,000. A sufficient release to assure that enough CWTS are recovered from fisheries to produce accurate run reconstruction and mark selective evaluations.

Curt
 
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Smalma

Active Member
Jasmillo-

As you may recall folks are catching those resident fish from late fall/winter and through the summer. This year those fish were released as 1+ year old smolts in the spring of 2020 and are now in their third year of life and will spawn this fall as is normal for Puget Sound coho (in some wild populations there are some coho maturing as 4 year fish however those fish get that extra year from being older smolts and not extra time in the salt). Those resident coho that are not caught (hatchery or wild) will spawn this fall either returning to their hatchery of origin or in the case of some with extended rearing in nets pens there will be a mixture of fish returning to home rivers and others shot gunning to streams near their release site.

If there were no fishing on those resident fish most would reach maturity at pretty reasonable sizes (say 3 to 7#).

It has been my observation that the larger individuals in the resident population are the more aggressive/catchable fish thus our fishing tends to select for the larger fish those eliminating many of those fast growing fish and as the season progress as those small fish grow they enter the fishery at increasing rates. Two net effects of this; 1) we see few of the fish that would show the full growth potential of that life history and 2) the fishery assure that hatchery brood stocks for at least that resident life history have experienced selectivity against those faster growing fish.

Curt
 

Bagman

Active Member
This weekend surely did not suck. Nice weather and even with bluebird sky’s, lots of fish willing to play. Like last year, off to a very solid start with lots of fish around. August and September 2020 were tough though so crossing my fingers this continues. It did slow a bit today.

A fish sample from the weekend.

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Non fish indicators of success. Sore, beat up hands. Don’t be like me, remember your tape boys and girls…

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Puget Sound; not a bad place to spend your fishing time….
Nice looking fish. What fly line are you using, the only line that cuts me like that was a Airflo ridged. I thought ridge ment stiffer, but it had a cross section that looks like a gear, (ridges) with each tooth made from a razor blade. Nick May remember that day I fished it my finger was a bloody mess.
 

jasmillo

WFF Premium
Nice looking fish. What fly line are you using, the only line that cuts me like that was a Airflo ridged. I thought ridge ment stiffer, but it had a cross section that looks like a gear, (ridges) with each tooth made from a razor blade. Nick May remember that day I fished it my finger was a bloody mess.

I am using a Rio OBS. I think it is a combo of long hours with salty wet hands, stripping using that same finger every time and locking down on hooked fish with that finger. It happens every salmon season. I actually just broke down and bought a 3 pack of wingo stripping guards for 9 bucks. No idea if they’ll help. Tape works great too. I always forget to put it on and applying it to wet hands does not always work. It ends up not sticking well. I figure throwing a few small sleeves into my wader pockets means they’ll always be there and can be applied all the time. We’ll see how they work.

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Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater....Know Grizzler
I am using a Rio OBS. I think it is a combo of long hours with salty wet hands, stripping using that same finger every time and locking down on hooked fish with that finger. It happens every salmon season. I actually just broke down and bought a 3 pack of wingo stripping guards for 9 bucks. No idea if they’ll help. Tape works great too. I always forget to put it on and applying it to wet hands does not always work. It ends up not sticking well. I figure throwing a few small sleeves into my wader pockets means they’ll always be there and can be applied all the time. We’ll see how they work.

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Have used similar before and they do work.
A stripping glove is another option.
It seems the cuts will come regardless of the line you use
I know some folks use duct tape, but I always have a roll of this in my rig. Works great and stays on all day but as you mentioned, not great if you apply it to wet, salty hands.
The two handed strip will avoid the cuts but by the end of the season you’ll start getting the coho crab claw felling in your hands. ;)
I can feel it just starting after three straight days of fishing.
SF

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