Why the West is Burning

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
Don't think so, Billy. Pateros burned in the first fire, but a year later was another one. We have several good friends in Winthrop and Mazama. The story we got was, (this is about the first, biggest one) state firefighters and volunteers were ordered to stand down, and not engage the fire. This included the local smokejumpers, who first called it in and were ready to jump on them right away. They were all told to stay out, and then the feds did absolutely nothing until they merged and got out of control. In the big meeting a year later at Brewster, sheriff's deputies had to protect that asshole Goldmark because people were so angry. It was on his orders that state resources were put on hold-according to our friends who attended the meeting. One man died of a heart attack while working to clear a fireline around his property. His wife and friends helping, tried to flag down emergency personnel, but they refused to stop-this from the eye witnesses. Don't know if they could have saved him if they had stopped, but they sure as hell didn't help him.

And I've never allowed either brush or trees anywhere near my home, along with a metal roof, stucco sides.
Alex again the Carlton Complex is what burned Pateros. The year after is the fire that killed the firefighters in Twisp. The Carlton Complex had an incredible rate of spread. If you look at the map the writing was on the wall by the second day. Could all four fires have been put out with a huge initial attack? Maybe but who funds the resources for this initial attack to be on standby? I dont believe for one second the stand down order happened before the 3rd day where the firestorm happened and the fire went 25 miles. The local department were very much fighting the fires closest to Carlton and they were not able to contain even the fire closest to the road! In this case with those weather conditions it was probably the right decision and although the home owners didnt agree it probably saved firefighter lives. You can't put out a fire that goes 25 miles in a night. I believe the stand down was the right call. I dont know the story about the ambulance and not stopping but again did the ambulance crew even see the citizens needing help? Its so easy to place blame after a situation like this. I mean could you not blame those who cut the budget for firefighting? What party is that Alex?

It's easy to say they should have put the fire out in a day. To anyone that thinks like that volunteer and get on the line. Good Luck.
 
Last edited:

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
Also Alex this was going on the same day that the fires started in the Methow... Screenshot_20170913-203754.png Imagine the lawsuits if the DNR had lost 860 homes???
 

hbmcc

Active Member
IQ Range Classification (Old system)
70-80 Borderline deficiency
50-69 Moron
20-49 Imbecile
below 20 Idiot


Stupid is a vague generalization of low intelligence. Moron is a classification. Not used today though. The old system has been replaced by levels of mental retardation.

IQ Range Classification (New system)
50-69 Mild
35-49 Moderate
20-34 Severe
below 20 Profound

So in reality, a moron is actually mildly retarded.

And those with IQ's of 70-80 are democrats.

Then republicans are Profound. ;)
 

Klickrolf

Active Member
If the fire resistance isn't ready when needed that would be the managers problem. It's always, always easier to put out a small fire than a larger fire. Truth sometimes sucks but it remains truth regardless of what anyone thinks.
 

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
If the fire resistance isn't ready when needed that would be the managers problem. It's always, always easier to put out a small fire than a larger fire. Truth sometimes sucks but it remains truth regardless of what anyone thinks.
A managers problem? You dont have a freaking clue about dispatch or resources available do you? Or how a crew is run or assigned to a fire or any thing fire related. So why post in this thread?
 

Klickrolf

Active Member
You're right, I have no clue, but I do assume forest managers have ideas of where problems occur and if they don't they should find new jobs. Equipment placement and being ready is likely the most important part of fire fighting (which I know nothing about). But if the intent is to put out fires then the setup should be ready and if it isn't someone is at fault.
 

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
You're right, I have no clue, but I do assume forest managers have ideas of where problems occur and if they don't they should find new jobs. Equipment placement and being ready is likely the most important part of fire fighting (which I know nothing about). But if the intent is to put out fires then the setup should be ready and if it isn't someone is at fault.
What do you think about Trumps budget cuts to wildland firefighting for 2018 then?
 

Klickrolf

Active Member
Silly question, You know I love President Donald J. Trump! I think the local fire fighting agencies should do the best they can and jumping on fires early is always preferable to waiting until they get larger. I also think President Donald J. Trump agrees with me.
 

Klickrolf

Active Member
I don't do that hard stuff because it used to make me stupid. I learned it didn't help and now I'm at my best. I'll prove it to you if you really care!
 

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
Lets play a game. Klick you are a fire, "manager." You have 200 wildland firefighters at your disposal. Fire A is called, "Chiwaukum Fire." It threatens 860 homes immediatly. Fire B is 4 small fires. Two fires are close to Carlton but not threatening much yet and two are in rough terrain miles from road. Weather is extreme all over. Where do you send people?
 

JohnB

Active Member
Thanks for boiling it down accurately and well Billy. Just about every day that week was in the mid 90s, many of them with decent winds. Only correction I have to make is that the fire that many of the Granite Mountain Hotshot crew died in was 2013, the year prior to the Carlton Complex.
 

Klickrolf

Active Member
First thing I'd need to know is where my helicopters are. If I were wise I'd have them ready and nearby. Then I'd drop shitloads of water on the fires and try to get some firefighters to make sure the fire is dead from the water, retardant or whatever, fire dead stuff! Every fire should be killed as early as possible and it doesn't matter if anyone disagrees because they are wrong. I did once try to qualify for a fire crew but I was too fast on my feet so they figured I'd jump into the fire, I didn't get to go.

Truth is this isn't funny. It's very serious and if we don't try to put fires out ASAP we're asking for trouble. We should never let them burn because they won't damage buildings or structures. Fires always burn things we'd prefer they didn't burn, even forests and wild lands. I don't care if fire is a natural consequence of nature. As educated humans we should know that letting things burn is the wrong choice, always!
 

Support WFF | Remove the Ads

Support WFF by upgrading your account. Site supporters benefits include no ads and access to some additional features, few now, more in the works. Info
Top