Why the West is Burning

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
Thanks for boiling it down accurately and well Billy. Just about every day that week was in the mid 90s, many of them with decent winds. Only correction I have to make is that the fire that many of the Granite Mountain Hotshot crew died in was 2013, the year prior to the Carlton Complex.
Yes correct. And perhaps this weighed heavy on incident commands head...and rightly so.
 

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
First thing I'd need to know is where my helicopters are. If I were wise I'd have them ready and nearby. Then I'd drop shitloads of water on the fires and try to get some firefighters to make sure the fire is dead from the water, retardant or whatever, fire dead stuff! Every fire should be killed as early as possible and it doesn't matter if anyone disagrees because they are wrong. I did once try to qualify for a fire crew but I was too fast on my feet so they figured I'd jump into the fire, I didn't get to go.

Truth is this isn't funny. It's very serious and if we don't try to put fires out ASAP we're asking for trouble. We should never let them burn because they won't damage buildings or structures. Fires always burn things we'd prefer they didn't burn, even forests and wild lands. I don't care if fire is a natural consequence of nature. As educated humans we should know that letting things burn is the wrong choice, always!
I'm not arguing to let things burn. I do appreciate your honest response. My point is that they were doing what they could. Here is a little blurb I found. The Stokes fire was the closest to town.

"A hot summer had dried out the grass, brush, and timber in the steep canyons and ridges on both sides of the Methow River drainage. On July 15, all four fires began to spread alarmingly. The Stokes fire (sometimes called the Stokes Road fire) was considered the most serious, since it was threatening homes near Carlton. Seven homes along Texas Creek Road were ordered evacuated on the afternoon of July 15 because the fires were "running through grass" and timber ("Evacuations Issued for Carlton Fire"). About 127 firefighting personnel were tackling the Stokes fire, including a Canadian air tanker.

Hot Breezes

On July 16, the fire was whipped up by hot breezes and mushroomed from 1,720 acres to over 7,000 acres. "

So you can see that there was initial attack to put the fires closest to town out. Now Klick lets look a a map showing rate of spread: Screenshot_20170913-200437.png The blue is basically day 1 and 2 of the four different spot fires. Again you would focus on the fires closest to Carlton if you were incident command right? I would. Again as the fire grew so did the amount of firefighters as well as incident command. It sure looks to me like an absolute firestorm day 3. Lucky really no one died. Resources were probably scrambling everywhere. Again I understand the homeowners being upset that the fire wasnt put out and I think one of the first to sue was a firefighter/homeowner who said he "could" have put it out easy. Again after the fact thats easy to say. Fighting fires at night lets say the first evening, again very difficult. you dont want a bunch of college kids on a type two crew up there. lot of safety concerns with falling rocks and trees, etc. It's not a task for anyone but the elites and even then how long are you able to maintain the ability to dig fireline after 24 hours it gets a little dicey...
 

Alex MacDonald

that's His Lordship, to you.....
Hey Billy,tell you what: I'll introduce you to the guy who lost his friend in that first one (I wasn't referring to the firefighters who were killed near Twisp), and you can hear it first-hand from him--he was there. He owns the KOA in Winthrop. Doesn't really matter though, in the long run, to quote that clinton bitch..."what difference does it make" at this point. A guy died. EMS refused to stop to help him. Local fire units were ordered to stand down. State fire dozers sat idle on the side of the road while the fire raged. Resources were not used until it was too late. Those are the facts of this fire, as reported by the eye-witnesses, and confirmed by recordings of the radio traffic at the time. Bottom line-they fucked up, and they know it.
 

Tim Cottage

Formerly tbc1415
WFF Supporter
Klick should read the book, "The Control of Nature" by John McPhee. It's human folly to believe that man can control nature, except in some lucky instances.

Now what would be the fun in that when you can just form an opinion, follow it with a train of thought, label it fact or logic, back it up with web links that support your opinion and declare victory.

All without any working or in-depth knowledge of the subject.

TC
 

b_illymac

Soap Lake Posse
WFF Moderator
Hey Billy,tell you what: I'll introduce you to the guy who lost his friend in that first one (I wasn't referring to the firefighters who were killed near Twisp), and you can hear it first-hand from him--he was there. He owns the KOA in Winthrop. Doesn't really matter though, in the long run, to quote that clinton bitch..."what difference does it make" at this point. A guy died. EMS refused to stop to help him. Local fire units were ordered to stand down. State fire dozers sat idle on the side of the road while the fire raged. Resources were not used until it was too late. Those are the facts of this fire, as reported by the eye-witnesses, and confirmed by recordings of the radio traffic at the time. Bottom line-they fucked up, and they know it.
we can agree to disagree and you know I respect your opinion...i just want to say one thing though

Surely you with your military background know that the publics opinion of things that happen like this is often not quite fact....perception, the grieving process, etc can often change "reality". just sayin
 

lee c

Active Member
Just sayin', flapperdoodle and balderdash is where its at, especially pertaining to some of these threads.
 
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Rob Allen

Active Member
I have no dog whatsoever in this debate i just have one question. It is a question and that it all.

We have spent two billion dollars this year fighting wild fires, the most we have ever spent.
My question is this. Aside from protecting structures how much influence does fire fighting have on the amount of land burnt vs just letting it burn? Again apart from protecting structures.
 

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