Trump shrinking National Monuments on Monday

Because I have a super low tolerance for bullshit, and when Paul Ryan walks into a press conference and lies about this being for the middle class and that it will pay for itself it pisses me off.



The ACA isn't perfect but they didn't pass it to make people rich.



I don't know exactly what you are referring too, but I'm assuming if they opted out it's because they already had coverage. My healthcare is covered by my employer, as is theirs, so why would I get covered under the ACA? It doesn't exist for people who already have healthcare....



Negative. You want me to sit here and rip apart Obama era policies that I didn't support because they added too much $$ to our debt? I can, but I'm not sure how that is relevant since he isn't in office anymore... This tax bill is a bad deal for probably everyone on this forum. It doesn't matter R vs D, you shouldn't support and defend things that aren't good for you.

Obama care exsists to take money from the lower class and give it to big insurance companies.
This is how ACA works for someone like me First I have to pay even 300 a month for health insurance which has a deductible of 5000 dollars a year which i could never pay. Then they ding me for an extra grand at tax time cause i got a 50 cent raise.
ACA. Is the worst legislation against the lower class there has ever been.
I have paid in 5600 to the stupid thing and haven't even smelled a doctors office.
RIP OFF is the ONLY way to view ACA.
Stealing from the poor to give to insurers.
 
I'd rather watch Ryan lie about taxes than Obama lie about investigations or Clinton lie about why she allowed people to die in Africa.

Blah blah blah.... that's all i hear from these threads anymore.


Gut the government and don't spend tax dollars on things that aren't tangible infrastructure assets.
 
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Obama care exsists to take money from the lower class and give it to big insurance companies.
This is how ACA works for someone like me First I have to pay even 300 a month for health insurance which has a deductible of 5000 dollars a year which i could never pay. Then they ding me for an extra grand at tax time cause i got a 50 cent raise.
ACA. Is the worst legislation against the lower class there has ever been.
I have paid in 5600 to the stupid thing and haven't even smelled a doctors office.
RIP OFF is the ONLY way to view ACA.
Stealing from the poor to give to insurers.
Funny how 9 million more people just signed up for ACA. Rob, you and I are going to add $18 to our wallets while your boy POTUS will have an 11 Mil - 15 Mil increase thus adding to the chart that I introduced and blinded me earlier. Oh, and after 2025 middle income taxes will increase. Time for you, FSA, Gene S. and others to face the truth!
 
Funny how 9 million more people just signed up for ACA. Rob, you and I are going to add $18 to our wallets while your boy POTUS will have an 11 Mil - 15 Mil increase thus adding to the chart that I introduced and blinded me earlier. Oh, and after 2025 middle income taxes will increase. Time for you, FSA, Gene S. and others to face the truth!
I don't care. Your charts are crap all our opinions are crap. There is not an expert on the planet who knows exactly what these cuts will do. All they are are guesses so we All need to just shut up.
 
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This particular tax package has way longer legs than any other we've ever seen in our lifetimes. Not claiming to have any new insight other than the fact the legislation provides huge incentives, including regulation reductions, for what used to be US companies/corps to return to the US for their manufacturing, etc. Those incentives are absolutely necessary if we hope to increase living wage jobs in the US. Corporate tax rates have been the highest in the world for years so dropping them would obviously be a huge benefit to our economy. All business is about making money! We can't and won't produce as cheaply as China or Mexico but we can try to compete...and our environmental regulations are more thorough. The new tax package is a good start because it does incentivize, strongly, another look at the US for manufacturing and resource exploitation = more high paying jobs.

There could never be a "successful" tax package that only includes the middle class because most of the middle class works for corps, LLC's or owns small business's. The tax package had to favor corporations because that's where fast and hopefully successful investment will occur. Reducing taxes on the middle class means they'll spend more on consumer goods, if they feel they can. Reducing taxes on corps means they might invest more in people, projects and plans. This tax package attempted to do a little of both. I'll admit much more for corporations but then again corporations are made of nothing but invested people and money.

Ooh, watching Fox News and just saw President Donald J. Trump talking about this bill, he said "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs..."
 
I don't care. Your charts are crap all our opinions are crap. There is not an expert on the planet who knows exactly what these cuts will do. All they are are guesses so we All need to just shut up.
So let's see if I have this straight.........nobody knows anything about it, so we just need to TRUST a bunch of greedy rich liars when they say it's a good thing for all of us? I see. You are an idiot.

The cuts for the rich have no end date. The ones for the rest of us do. How is that fair?

Now that they will be increasing the deficit by 1.5 trillion, where will they get money for infrastructure? Pull it out of their asses? This tax giveaway to the rich won't pay for it.

Oh, and BTW....other countries will just lower their corporate taxes, so there will be no USA advantage. Zero. Back to this only being here to make the rich richer.
 

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There could never be a "successful" tax package that only includes the middle class because most of the middle class works for corps, LLC's or owns small business's.
Maybe... ARRA had some tax incentives for big business but it was mostly targeted at the middle/working class, and it did what it was supposed to do.

I've explained this in other posts, but I'll reiterate that when you give a tax break (or even a stimulus) to middle or low income people they typically do what is intended and spend that money. On the other hand, wealthy people have a much higher propensity to save, so only a fraction is spent or injected back into the economy. In the case of corporations we see better results, but it's still mostly a crapshoot with odds rarely better than 50/50 that the excess is spent in a way that creates jobs. A LOT of it goes offshore right away. That's why a tax cut like this CAN'T pay for itself because never in the history of the world has 100% of the reprieve come back, and the rates of investment are too low to even compound that much in terms of growth and jobs. We aren't talking in absolutes here because much of this has to do with human behavior, but we know without a doubt that a higher percentage of excess money in the pockets of middle/low income people is recycled into the American economy which typically makes it the safer bet.

I agree that our corporate taxes should be lower, but I'm not sure dumping them to 21% along with the estate tax and top individual tax brackets was the right move....

Here is what's going to happen... In a few years or in 2025 when the middle class tax cuts sunset we will look back on this and try to figure out if it was good or bad. Republicans are going to point to growth and increased jobs because there will be some of that because that's what tax cuts do. Democrats are going to point to the $1.5 trillion addition to our debt and that some or most of the middle class really didn't fare all that well and maybe even paid more. So neither side is really going to agree on this and will just site the aspects that help their agenda. Then they are going to have a bunch of economists do a professional analysis and I'd bet that the majority of them say this ended up costing America more than she got back in growth/jobs. Actually, I'd pretty much bet the farm on that. Like I told another member, this is about how big of an impact on our deficit you are willing to trade for marginal returns in economic growth. Where I live, the economy is already basically the best it's ever been, so my threshold on that is really low, like non existent. Maybe yours is higher.
 
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Mondragon in Spain, a Cooperative, and Lincoln Electric in, I believe Michigan are two of the very few examples I could find that put their employees first and show some hope for trickle down. At Mondragon the top CEO makes only 6X more than the lowest paid employee. A lot of US CEOs make over 400 times more than their lows paid grunt.

Trickle Down is and always has been pure bullshit! If anyone can find more examples like the two I have presented I will gladly stand corrected. Oh, and don't bother giving me that CEO.s deserve to make this much horseshit story. As much as I hate the ground POTUS walks on his presidential pay check (I believe at about $400 large) because of the massive responsibility should be more than any Corporate Earth raper!
 
I don't care. Your charts are crap all our opinions are crap. There is not an expert on the planet who knows exactly what these cuts will do. All they are are guesses so we All need to just shut up.
If you, or anyone else choose to shut up over this crisis that is their choice. I refuse to play the fiddle.
Nero Fiddled while Rome Burned.jpg
 
When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.
~ Cree Prophecy
 

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