NFR Matt Lauer firing and My feelings on the MeToo campaign

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jamma

Active Member
Had he not "goosed" her everything after that would not have happened. What your saying sounds like you or he are trying to deflect from the original screw up. He has to take responsibility for his actions and whether he feels it was handled correctly or or not is irrelevant.
Not trying to deflect anything,merely pointing out that not discouraging something can easily be interpreted as encouraging it.Might add that this occurred several decades ago when crossing gender lines was not an issue that was a topic for discussion.We see this today in videos of some passed out friend getting his eyebrows shaved off or something written on his face with a magic marker.Most of us see the humor in this,but it too is a violation of someone's personal space when they are in no position to defend themselves.And yet no one I know of sees this as being at the same level as what occurred here.Besides,entrapment and due process are not irrelevant.
 
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Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout forever
Not trying to deflect anything,merely pointing out that not discouraging something can easily be interpreted as encouraging it.
I shouldn't have to put "No Trespassing" signs up on my property to keep people away.

Same applies here.

By not putting signs up, am I am encouraging people to come onto my property? No way.
 

Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout forever
The two points I wanted to make:
1)That she did nothing to discourage the behavior(and no,it was not nervous or embarrassed laughter,she was enjoying the joke until it apparently got old for her)and
2)the steward conspired with her against a fellow employee which is just wrong for a union representative.I repeat,in no way did I find this acceptable behavior.The correct way to handle the situation would have been for the three of them to discuss the situation and clear the air about what is or isn't acceptable.
It is a NO until is a clear YES, and you better be pretty darn sure it is. And even if YES, it can turn to a NO just as easily again.
 

Jojo

Active Member
Not trying to deflect anything,merely pointing out that not discouraging something can easily be interpreted as encouraging it.
What made him think he could goose her in the first place? I would venture to say that every guy on this forum knows better that to ever attempt to try and get away with that in the workplace or anywhere even if the woman is outrageously flirting with him. It was just plain wrong, no matter what.

I will add that it makes me uneasy that a woman would continue to behave like she is having fun in all this and THEN decides to stage a sting to get him in trouble. She could have taken him aside and told him to stop and THEN if he didn't go ahead and file a complaint. Maybe she really did ask him to stop though? You might not know that.

As far as the union rep...The rep HAS to represent her in such a case. It's a Duty of Fair Representation and the union could be sued for not taking the complaint seriously and doing something about it. (Regardless of whether or not they had a 'relationship'. It's the union's job. )
 

gofish101

Active Member
Not trying to deflect anything,merely pointing out that not discouraging something can easily be interpreted as encouraging it.Might add that this occurred several decades ago when crossing gender lines was not an issue that was a topic for discussion.
I can't think of anywhere I have worked that had a no goosing allowed sign posted or expressly discouraged. This is a common sense thing. This guy got caught up in the moment and carried it to far. It should not of happened in the first place!!!! My guess is this guy will never goose on the job again... Lesson learned, all be it the hard way... Probably for both I would think.
 

gofish101

Active Member
We see this today in videos of some passed out friend getting his eyebrows shaved off or something written on his face with a magic marker.Most of us see the humor in this,but it too is a violation of someone's personal space when they are in no position to defend themselves.And yet no one I know of sees this as being at the same level as what occurred here..
First I don't see the humor in that at all. If this happened on the workplace I would 1) Fire the person shaving the eyebrows or writing on a persons face no questions asked. 2) Fire the person passed out ... well for being passed out. For the record during the 80's through 90's I managed a retail store with 30 to 40 employees.
 

Jojo

Active Member
So @Jojo , what have you learned from all this... what is your takeaway?
I'm not sure about what you are asking but i'll try to answer in list form, because i love making lists.

1. I kind of already said it. Every guy on this post has been thoughtful and respectful and very open to a very sensitive topic. I would be happy to be a co-worker with any one of you! I would be happy to have most of you as a boss! And I appreciate that some of you here would probably have stepped up and helped me out when I was at an age where i wasn't yet standing up for myself. At the time i didn't have bosses i felt would have done anything. Some of you here would have been way more approachable.

2. There are some misconceptions that were voiced here (i.e. An inference about maybe good looking guys aren't guilty of this kind of behavior, when of course they are) but even that was respectfully addressed and no one got their butt tangled up in a knot.

3. There is another woman here! @enlightened ! So nice to know!

4. Unlike Facebook, we didn't use this topic to point fingers at political party members we don't like. We stayed on topic pretty much. I can't stand reading comments on the news links.

5. Matt Lauer is a bigger douchebag than i could have imagined.

6. After reading about the alleged details of some of these guys' behavior I seriously underestimated how gross some seemingly very intelligent celebrities could get. I cannot for the life of me wrap my brain around how their brain works.

7. I don't think we've seen the last of it. So far, other than Al Franken, i don't care much that the others are probably done. Even Bill Cosby.
 

jamma

Active Member
What made him think he could goose her in the first place? I would venture to say that every guy on this forum knows better that to ever attempt to try and get away with that in the workplace or anywhere even if the woman is outrageously flirting with him. It was just plain wrong, no matter what.

I will add that it makes me uneasy that a woman would continue to behave like she is having fun in all this and THEN decides to stage a sting to get him in trouble. She could have taken him aside and told him to stop and THEN if he didn't go ahead and file a complaint. Maybe she really did ask him to stop though? You might not know that.

As far as the union rep...The rep HAS to represent her in such a case. It's a Duty of Fair Representation and the union could be sued for not taking the complaint seriously and doing something about it. (Regardless of whether or not they had a 'relationship'. It's the union's job. )
Good points all.He was a rather eccentric fellow,but the first two kind of work against each other.She may have said no and I was not privy to that but I also have no idea what lead up to that situation.It is possible that they had established a level of good humor to alleviate the tedium of the job and it got out of hand.I just know what I saw in real time.I honestly don't think it was flirting as I had worked with the woman before and had no issue with her and am pretty sure she was not looking for any relationship.We all engaged in a certain level of horseplay to combat boredom,some of it mean spirited and possibly unsafe.
As to the union rep.(I later became a steward myself)he had a responsibility to represent all of us.I have no proof,but I think the sting was all his idea and all she wanted was for the behavior to stop.I truly believe they could have talked things out and the man wouldn't have had to lose his job,because when management gets dragged into it,the worse possible outcome is guaranteed.
As to the private property posting,and please correct me if I'm wrong,couldn't they just claim"I didn't know"and get off scott free?
 

Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout forever
As to the private property posting,and please correct me if I'm wrong,couldn't they just claim"I didn't know"and get off scott free?
Really? I walk into your garage or, let's say backyard..be it 40 sq feet or 400 acres, and it is ok because of no sign? Hmm. I know this comes up all the time when someone gets shot when they do not see a sign warning them they are breaking onto private property and open an unlocked front door..

People (not saying you), who like to stretch the laws by technicalities end up on the news in bad ways a lot.
 

jamma

Active Member
First I don't see the humor in that at all. If this happened on the workplace I would 1) Fire the person shaving the eyebrows or writing on a persons face no questions asked. 2) Fire the person passed out ... well for being passed out. For the record during the 80's through 90's I managed a retail store with 30 to 40 employees.
On this one,I was referring to residential drinking parties.The perpetrator's attitude is usually"you passed out and deserved what you got by doing so".
 

jamma

Active Member
Really? I walk into your garage or, let's say backyard..be it 40 sq feet or 400 acres, and it is ok because of no sign? Hmm. I know this comes up all the time when someone gets shot when they do not see a sign warning them they are breaking onto private property and open an unlocked front door..

People (not saying you), who like to stretch the laws by technicalities end up on the news in bad ways a lot.
Not saying it's O.K.,just saying there's a reason for private property laws and signs.I don't think someone with 400 acres would call it a backyard,but I could be wrong.To give a current example of what I'm getting at,in Portland they are having a problem convicting car thieves because the state has the burden of having to prove the perp knew the car was stolen.Now that's messed up.Not that someone who makes the leap to walking through your front door is going to give a hoot about your sign.They get everything they deserve.But does this extend to a fireman or policeman responding to a situation you are unaware of? There are different levels to every scenario.
 

jamma

Active Member
To JoJo:This has been a great thread,good work.I just wanted to throw this case out to illustrate some of the complex dynamics involved in this issue and will be my last reference to it.I respect everyone's input and hope it gave us all something to reflect on.
 
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