NFR Proposed Changes to the Internet

mtskibum16

Active Member
#48
Here is a good comment on Reddit's top page sticky on Net Neutrality. Sums up the problem pretty well.

"Most Americans have little or no choice of ISPs, and as it happens, the largest ISPs in the US are also some of the largest media companies.

For consumers, this means the ISP you are practically forced to use also can control what media you have access to.

For business, this means you are at the mercy of the ISPs, who as media companies are also likely competitors, to reach your customer. Bandwidth intensive, yet worldly important companies like Netflix and YouTube would have a really hard time getting off the ground if they existed at the whims of the major ISPs/media companies.
"
https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/7fx1x4/an_update_on_the_fight_for_the_free_and_open/

A good example: Comcast. It's my only choice for fast internet service. Why would they let me watch Netflix when they want me to watch their cable service? If they charge me an extra fee to watch Netflix, which makes me choose to not use Netflix, how is that a fair market for Netflix? Their business depends on people having access to their content. This would hurt all consumers as well as any small business that uses the internet to get their products to customers. This is literally bad for everyone other than the handful of major ISP providers.
 
#49
Its really pretty simple. Do you like it as it is now? Or would you like it if Comcast, or ATT can limit or slow down what you want to watch, forcing you to add a service for an additional charge?

Rolling this back will allow Comcast and ATT to charge what they want. Allow them to fuck with your broadband speed so they can force you into using THEIR service if you want high speed. It will allow them to charge additional fees for "prime time" and for setting up so called "fast lanes" at a premium price.

Those who say the government has been REGULATING the internet are under a false impression that the GOVERNMENT is setting prices. They are not. They are putting the reigns on big business so they cannot screw you at will. They have limits on how much screwing they can do. If you like getting screwed, this is what you will get if this rolls back. Screwed. And not even getting dinner out of it.
 
#50
This must be why those socialist European countries have faster internet at lower cost than we do in the U.S. Along with as good or better health care at half the cost of the U.S.

The free market is not inherently perfect. Like any system, it has to be regulated to serve the many over the few.
Well said. And of course, if you have lobbying and campaign contributions, you don’t really have a free market, regardless of what the idealists think.
 

freestoneangler

Not to be confused with Freestone
#51
Edit: "With the right regulations in place..." YES Excactly! That's exactly what is currently in place....Net Neutrality. Regulations to keep the internet an open and free market. 5 members of the FCC are voting on removing those regulations. 2 plan to vote to keep the regulations in place, and 3 plan to remove these regulations. The regulations are there to protect the consumer and small businesses.
This was my point. An open, free market with regulations in place to prevent skulduggery. We've managed to make it work for many other sectors of business and should be able to for internet/media as well. It's not easy, simply because we are greedy and self serving by nature. And, lets keep in mind that the skulduggery can (and does) also come from government as well - all parties are complicit. Our system isn't perfect, but it beats the alternatives all to hell IMHO.
 

freestoneangler

Not to be confused with Freestone
#52
Ideally yes, but it is next to impossible to break into the ISP space now with any sort of meaningful scale. Check what Google has ran into in Nashville. Millions in capex and next to nothing to show for it. They have essentially cancelled plans for any other cities to get their fiber.
Did not know that. Do you know why? Are they being excluded via right-of-way, contractual limitations between the municipalities and already existing service providers, etc.? Seems odd a giant like Google cannot enter the market. There must be more to the story-line.
 

BDD

Active Member
#53
I tried an open, free market approach to guide situation in WA in order to prevent skulduggery but some greedy, self serving people didn't like it. No matter, I sent the government my comments just today anyway even though it probably won't do any good.

Wait, is this the guide thread or the internet thread?
 

mtskibum16

Active Member
#54
This was my point. An open, free market with regulations in place to prevent skulduggery. We've managed to make it work for many other sectors of business and should be able to for internet/media as well. It's not easy, simply because we are greedy and self serving by nature. And, lets keep in mind that the skulduggery can (and does) also come from government as well - all parties are complicit. Our system isn't perfect, but it beats the alternatives all to hell IMHO.
No you're missing the point. We already have that. They want to take it away.
 

jersey

livin' the dream
#57
This must be why those socialist European countries have faster internet at lower cost than we do in the U.S. Along with as good or better health care at half the cost of the U.S.

The free market is not inherently perfect. Like any system, it has to be regulated to serve the many over the few.
We agree on this Salmo. I'd prefer fewer Regs, but the regs are an important aspect.

Smaller nation-states can facilitate socialism much more efficiently just due to size and common social, language, and cultural environs.

Based on this, what if we as a consumer don't pay or don't subscribe to these new offerings? The financial loss (including the whores' payments, I mean lobby monies) will force the firms to alter their products or pricing or complete offerings.
 
#58
We agree on this Salmo. I'd prefer fewer Regs, but the regs are an important aspect.

Smaller nation-states can facilitate socialism much more efficiently just due to size and common social, language, and cultural environs.

Based on this, what if we as a consumer don't pay or don't subscribe to these new offerings? The financial loss (including the whores' payments, I mean lobby monies) will force the firms to alter their products or pricing or complete offerings.
Time Warner Comcast ATT NBC don't care.
 

freestoneangler

Not to be confused with Freestone
#59
Time Warner Comcast ATT NBC don't care.
Now the question which or all of these should be in your stock portfolio? Might as well be making some money along with them to offset the expected increased cost for services.

To be honest, this whole "net neutrality" subject has not been something I've paid much attention too. I've been reading up on the subject and it sounds like another "follow the money" tale. I have yet to read anything that suggests the change somehow removes restrictions that are hindering performance /improvement of the internet as a whole. This is a pretty good article on the subject - I was purposely looking for info on"why it is a good thing".

https://lifehacker.com/why-the-fccs-new-net-neutrality-rules-are-good-for-the-1683769527

It appears that if the change is approved (odds are it will be on 12/14) this simply moves yet another policy subject matter into the court systems. I need to find out how to tap into all the profits from those billable lawyer fees. ;)
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#60
Based on this, what if we as a consumer don't pay or don't subscribe to these new offerings? The financial loss (including the whores' payments, I mean lobby monies) will force the firms to alter their products or pricing or complete offerings.
That's possible, but improbable. Regular folks, and especially businesses, have come to rely on internet technology. Many cannot afford to go back to 1980, and the rest don't want to. That massive dependence testifies that the internet is necessary as a public utility. Utility monopolies are heavily regulated. The internet should be for the same reasons.
 

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