Attn. All Nymphers: SLOW DOWN

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
Ira,

You're every bit as judgemental as the elitists you accuse. Who the fvck are you to say they fail? Huh? Swingers don't have a strangle hold on fly fishing, but they have over a century of tradition on their side when it comes to defining fly fishing for steelhead. You fail. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Even though bobber fishing for trout has been embraced as fly fishing by many or most in the trout fishing fraternity, that isn't yet the case with steelhead fly fishing. I say yet because swinging for steelhead - BTW neither the swinging nor the steelhead are sacred - is founded in tradition, and apparently much more so than fly fishing for trout.

Not so long ago that tradition dictated the state regulations on fly fishing only waters, and in those places weighted flies and any external weight on the leader and the line were all prohibited. It was the trout angling fraternity who discovered on their Montana forays that a weighted nymph under a bobber is a productive way to fish when the trout weren't rising for dries. And they persuaded WA to modify its fly fishing only regulations to permit indicators, and perhaps bobbers too, as well as weighted flies on our hallowed and sacred fly fishing only waters - but no split shot on leaders, yet.

I'm not here to argue that fly fishing has been desecrated by the regulatory modification, but some fisheries certainly have, but I digress. I'll certainly argue that these modifications are inconsistent with the style, method, intent embodied by the intent of steelhead fly fishing. They are probably inconsistent with trout fly fishing as well, but I haven't the interest or energy to argue about that.

Regarding the acceptance of bobber fishing as part of steelhead fly fishing, let's examine just who has embraced it. The young guides, shop owners/workers, and young bucks of the "pics or it didn't happen" mindset; this is the crowd that embraces bobber fishing, or "dirty azz nymphing" as I prefer to call it, as legitimate fly fishing for steelhead. Anglers old enough to have come up through the school of steelhead fly fishing tradition don't. Simple as that.

We don't say you can't do it. Some say it's unethical and some don't; I don't. But it sure as hell ain't fly fishing. It's gear fishing, plain and simple. And there's nothing wrong or immoral about gear fishing. It's just a different method of fishing. I don't see how anglers who stick with traditional steelhead fly fishing and who understand the difference between fly fishing and gear fishing are elitists. I suppose I'm coming from a different perspective, but to me the elitists are the "gotta' be me" steelheaders, proud with their bobber rods, announcing to the world that, "I caught a dozen steelhead today, and I've got photos to prove each and every one." I think that kind of need smacks of elitism. A lot of traditional swingers I know are unlikely to reveal whether they've caught steelhead today or not. Probably because of a silly tradition that frowns on bragging to the world. Well that, and not wanting me to figure out where they found those fish today.

To be clear, steelhead are not God, and traditional steelhead fly fishermen are not God-like. In fact most are reprobates, drunks, or reformed drunks and the most likeable bunch I've ever shared a campfire with.

Like bobbers? Embrace the gear. It's not like that makes you a fallen angel.

Sg
I didn't say that he failed as a fisherman, just that his argument failed. Sorry to strike a nerve. Which has a longer tradition? Fly fishing for trout, or fly fishing for steelhead? Why is it so difficult for people to understand that traditions are constantly in flux? That definitions change?

I know that steelhead are not gods, but I truly question weather some swingers feel the same way. The elitist idea comes in when those praisers of a certain method to touch their gods are challenged and the lash out at the non believer. Same way that people who support "traditional" values lash out and anything that doesn't match their world view. Maybe elitist is the wrong term then, maybe naive or uninformed might work better. Possibly a better analogy here would be "Marriage".

I think those Dude/Bros you are referring to who post all their bragging are a bit elitist as well, I'll agree with you there.
 

BDD

Active Member
we are just having an academic discussion that is all.
Academic or even philosophical discussions are fine; it would be a pretty boring place if we all thought the same. However, the constant "I'm right, you are wrong" attitude displayed by a few of the same, consistent posters gets old, especially when in most cases there is no right or wrong...just differences of opinion. I guess if I am the only one that feels this way then maybe it is not a problem.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
What you prefer, is a different argument altogether. Enjoy away your flailing, how you like to flail. You are delusional and on the wrong side of this if you think that attaching an indicator to your leader is somehow not fly fishing. I'm not fooling myself in the least. I do find it funny how fly clubs keep asking me to present on a topic that your Personal Opinion can't accept is fly fishing. Rowley and Chan must not be fly fisherman either... HA!
Rowley and Chan is that a law firm?

I don't know what you are talking about. I don't know who those people (?) are.

Go Sox,
cds
 
Wow this thread is crazy but I am gonna chime in anyways with a couple of questions for both sides.

1.
How far can you cast a 12mm trout bead, one BB split shot, and a unweighted bobber (half inch thingamaboober ) fixed at 8' on a 9' leader, uing a gloomis float rod using 10lb mono or braid and the reel of your choice.?

2. How far can you cast the same terminal set up (9 foot leader, bb split, 12mm bead, half inch thingamaboober) on a single hand 8wt fly rod setup with a indicator taper.
 
i would be confused if a fly rod was being used to cast 2oz floats and lead slinkies and sandshrimp, it would not seem right. but a fly fishing approach is quite well suited for fishing a single bead. doesnt feel nearly as out of place.
 
Wow this thread is crazy but I am gonna chime in anyways with a couple of questions for both sides.

1.
How far can you cast a 12mm trout bead, one BB split shot, and a unweighted bobber (half inch thingamaboober ) fixed at 8' on a 9' leader, uing a gloomis float rod using 10lb mono or braid and the reel of your choice.?

2. How far can you cast the same terminal set up (9 foot leader, bb split, 12mm bead, half inch thingamaboober) on a single hand 8wt fly rod setup with a indicator taper.

I wouldn't use that set up on either set up..

If i wanted to fish a bead I'd use 50 lb braid that floats to an 8 foot piece of 12 lb mono with a slip bobber and a 1/2 oz inline weight. And most of the times I'd cast 50 feet or less because i believe in control.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
i would be confused if a fly rod was being used to cast 2oz floats and lead slinkies and sandshrimp, it would not seem right. but a fly fishing approach is quite well suited for fishing a single bead. doesnt feel nearly as out of place.
It used to be standard on the flyfishing only part of the salmon river NY to use a noodle rod, fly real, running line, a 12 foot leader, slinky, leader and either a glo bug or nymph. That was fly-fishing by the rulebook. You were drift fishing really. By the rules at the time it was fly-fishing.
That's the problem with nymphing. It sneaks in like a rat in the cupboard and before you know it everything is ruined. Nymphing is a corrupting influence on the sport. Think of the children!

Go sox,
Cds
 
I wouldn't use that set up on either set up..

If i wanted to fish a bead I'd use 50 lb braid that floats to an 8 foot piece of 12 lb mono with a slip bobber and a 1/2 oz inline weight. And most of the times I'd cast 50 feet or less because i believe in control.
thats great for you, way to skirt the question. what you would be doing is clearly gear fishing. more power to ya. not everyone can afford (or desire to buy) a float gear rods, a pin rod, a baitcaster, 3 spey rods, a streamer fly rod, a trout fly rod, etc. and the time to learn to use them all.

especially when they have that 8wt they bought for muskie fishing back home that will work just as well, and they know how to use because they fish trout rivers where they live. crazy to think some people dont know how to fish every rod and reel combo that exists like some of the spey fly fishing only folks who have been fishing steelhead rivers there entire life.

and i GET (as much as i can not having lived my entire life chasing coastal fish) why they hate the bead from the boat parade destroying what is likely a very important aspect of their life.
 

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