Attn. All Nymphers: SLOW DOWN

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
thats great for you, way to skirt the question. what you would be doing is clearly gear fishing. more power to ya. not everyone can afford (or desire to buy) a float gear rods, a pin rod, a baitcaster, 3 spey rods, a streamer fly rod, a trout fly rod, etc. and the time to learn to use them all.

especially when they have that 8wt they bought for muskie fishing back home that will work just as well, and they know how to use because they fish trout rivers where they live. crazy to think some people dont know how to fish every rod and reel combo that exists like some of the spey fly fishing only folks who have been fishing steelhead rivers there entire life.

and i GET why they hate the bead from the boat parade destroying what is likely a very important aspect of their life.
Is it a bad thing that I own all that stuff and know how to use it?
 
It used to be standard on the flyfishing only part of the salmon river NY to use a noodle rod, fly real, running line, a 12 foot leader, slinky, leader and either a glo bug or nymph. That was fly-fishing by the rulebook. You were drift fishing really. By the rules at the time it was fly-fishing.
That's the problem with nymphing. It sneaks in like a rat in the cupboard and before you know it everything is ruined. Nymphing is a corrupting influence on the sport. Think of the children!

Go sox,
Cds
sounds like a good rig ill give it a try this year.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
If indicators were not effective, this debate would not be happening.

If steelhead were plentiful up and down every system, this debate would not be happening.

I truly believe they worry about the definition because the two above are not true.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
I didn't say that he failed as a fisherman, just that his argument failed. Sorry to strike a nerve. Which has a longer tradition? Fly fishing for trout, or fly fishing for steelhead? Why is it so difficult for people to understand that traditions are constantly in flux? That definitions change?
It's OK Ira, I have nerves of steel, but the non-conducting kind. Fly fishing for trout has a tradition about 4 centuries longer than for steelhead, but I don't see how that matters. Of course traditions are constantly in flux. And definitions can change. I'll have you know that steelhead fly fishers have generally accepted rods made of fiberglass and graphite as meeting fly fishing criteria. Although there are still some holdouts. I still cringe at the thought of the bonfire on the Hoh that was fed with Sage rods by keepers of the faith that rods of split cane are required for fly fishing. And fly reels with disc drags are acceptable fly tackle for nearly half the steelhead fly fishing fraternity. How's that for flux and change? Oh, and the overwhelming majority of steelhead fly fishermen approve of using fly lines coated in plastic, either PVC or urethane.

You just happen to think that the common accouterments of gear fishing, bobbers and lead or other metal weight, fall within the realm of fly tackle when everyone knows that bobbers and sinkers are the foundation of worm fishing. With conventional gear of course.

What's weird is that "conventional gear" consists of bobbers, sinkers, spinning and casting reels and their associated rods are "conventional." It's weird because fly rods, fly lines, fly fishing leaders, and flies had them beat by centuries. And fly reels by a century or more.

Sg
 
thats great for you, way to skirt the question. what you would be doing is clearly gear fishing. more power to ya. not everyone can afford (or desire to buy) a float gear rods, a pin rod, a baitcaster, 3 spey rods, a streamer fly rod, a trout fly rod, etc. and the time to learn to use them all.

especially when they have that 8wt they bought for muskie fishing back home that will work just as well, and they know how to use because they fish trout rivers where they live. crazy to think some people dont know how to fish every rod and reel combo that exists like some of the spey fly fishing only folks who have been fishing steelhead rivers there entire life.

and i GET (as much as i can not having lived my entire life chasing coastal fish) why they hate the bead from the boat parade destroying what is likely a very important aspect of their life.

Oh I'd do it with a 30 dollar rod from bi mart and a 20 dollar reel.
Also an 8 wt for muskies is a really bad idea.

I did not skirt the issue. You brought up sn illogical scenario.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
If indicators were not effective, this debate would not be happening.

Well no shit Sherlock! If indicators were not effective nobody, except possibly you, would use them.

If steelhead were plentiful up and down every system, this debate would not be happening.

Wrong. Accessible stream miles is shrinking, and there are too many steelhead anglers seeking a rock to stand on. Plus, bobber fishermen stand on the rock all day trying to clean out the pool. Traditional steelheaders fish until they catch a fish or two, then leave, creating productive space for other anglers. It would take more than plentiful steelhead to eliminate the conflict generated by the gear and method discrepancy.

I truly believe they worry about the definition because the two above are not true.

Also incorrect for the reasons given above.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
It's OK Ira, I have nerves of steel, but the non-conducting kind. Fly fishing for trout has a tradition about 4 centuries longer than for steelhead, but I don't see how that matters. Of course traditions are constantly in flux. And definitions can change. I'll have you know that steelhead fly fishers have generally accepted rods made of fiberglass and graphite as meeting fly fishing criteria. Although there are still some holdouts. I still cringe at the thought of the bonfire on the Hoh that was fed with Sage rods by keepers of the faith that rods of split cane are required for fly fishing. And fly reels with disc drags are acceptable fly tackle for nearly half the steelhead fly fishing fraternity. How's that for flux and change? Oh, and the overwhelming majority of steelhead fly fishermen approve of using fly lines coated in plastic, either PVC or urethane.

You just happen to think that the common accouterments of gear fishing, bobbers and lead or other metal weight, fall within the realm of fly tackle when everyone knows that bobbers and sinkers are the foundation of worm fishing. With conventional gear of course.

What's weird is that "conventional gear" consists of bobbers, sinkers, spinning and casting reels and their associated rods are "conventional." It's weird because fly rods, fly lines, fly fishing leaders, and flies had them beat by centuries. And fly reels by a century or more.

Sg
I brought up trout, because indicators have long been an accepted part of fly fishing for trout. Ok, long as in as long as I have been fishing (1975 I started).

I don't use bobbers, I use indicators. Some steelhead fisherman use floats. There actually is a difference. I also don't use shot, but I agree, that at some point if you are able to pick the line up and throw it out their farther than you could "cast" it because of the amount of weight you have on there, it might not be fly fishing.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
Thus the reason I said plentiful up and down every system. No more worrying about the guy on the rock, when it is easy to find your own. No worry about crowding, because all the waters are open and more room is available. More steelhead would solve the problem in my opinion, because folks wouldn't be all up in each others business.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
I guess that's a matter of perspective. Steelhead rivers were crowded in the 1980s. There's more anglers now, not fewer, so people are gonna' have to hunt for a rock even if steelhead were plentiful.
 
If indicators were not effective, this debate would not be happening.

If steelhead were plentiful up and down every system, this debate would not be happening.

I truly believe they worry about the definition because the two above are not true.
That's just it it's not an effective method. Not when compared to using the right gear for that presentation.

Though i never really indicator fished for steelhead i gave up nymph fishing for them because it was too easy.
 

quilbilly

Big Time Hater
What's weird is that "conventional gear" consists of bobbers, sinkers, spinning and casting reels and their associated rods are "conventional." It's weird because fly rods, fly lines, fly fishing leaders, and flies had them beat by centuries. And fly reels by a century or more.

Sg
Those post WW2 nylon slinging contraptions were made for lazy people who were too inept to learn to cast a fly rod....much like nymphers who can't learn to swing a fly.
 
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