Attn. All Nymphers: SLOW DOWN

Smalma

Active Member
On the salt water forum there is a discussion about try to catch blackmouth on a fly centered around fishing off a beach. In light of this discussion if one really wants to catch a nice blackmouth on a fly why not take a nice flatwing streamer with a nice "wiggle plate" on the leader roll cast it behind a boat, attach the line to downrigger and round the gear down to 10 feet of the bottom and wait for the "take down". Better yet replace that small "wiggle plate" with a 11 inch of plastic sometimes called a flasher 36 inches or so in front of the fly. As long as I have a fly rod and reel and using fly any fish caught would be fly caught -right?

curt
 
Indicator and nymph is just an inefficient way to fish a bobber and jig. Effective yes but not compared to the same nymph fished on say a spinning rod.
it could be said (and has by many on this board in the name of conservation) that swinging flies is a very inefficient way of fishing. Give a talented spin fisher a blue fox and a spinning rod and they could cover water faster and more efficiently.

So I guess that since I'm swinging often and nymphing a little bit, I'm doing things the least efficient way possible...guess what, I don't care.

BTW, stripping streamers is now the only legit way of targeting the mythical beings known as steelhead.

This thread is highly entertaining, I'll give you guys that...

damn, I can't wait for musky fishing!!!
 
In the past I have been known to tie a Wells spoon on the end of a 9/10/11 Windcutter and fling it all using a Sage 9140 with a Hardy Bougle’ IV for the winch portion. I found using a long floating fly line on a long two handed rod to be quite superior to throwing the same lure using a bait caster or spin setup. The ability to mend the line in different directions controlling the speed of the lure and maintaining its placement in the strike zone for longer periods of time far easier with the two handed fly setup. The line delivered the lure with no added weight and I was able to cast to the same distances I would cast any other lure/fly.

Was I fly fishing? Was I gear fishing? Was I gear fishing with a two handed fly fishing rod and line?

By the way the setup is quite effective on silvers.
After reading your previous posts about this, I tried some dick nites off my spey rod. I didn't like it all that much for spey fishing but I love them off the jetty for rockfish, you can launch those things a mile with a shooting a head.
 
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Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
The bobber guys really want to be fly fishermen. I say they take the bobber off and they may become fly fishermen.

Hopefully, I'll be fishing with Kerry. He won't be so effected by me when I tell him that the wells spoon is not a fly.

Go Sox,
cds
I'll keep fishing with people who aren't bent out of shape when I call indicator fishing fly fishing. Here I am fishing next to Charles:

Me: Hey look Charles, I'm fly fishing with an indicator.
Charles: That is not fly fishing.
Me: (Hooking another fish and bending my rod out of the shape it was before) Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

See how bent out of shape I would be?
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
Indicator and nymph is just an inefficient way to fish a bobber and jig. Effective yes but not compared to the same nymph fished on say a spinning rod.
I disagree with you on this Rob. (Big surprise, huh?) I fished with a nymphing guru some years ago just to study the technique. A real student doesn't use just any bobber. The bobber, indicator, or float choice is critical to both the efficiency and effectiveness of the presentation. Also the weight hung below that float. I think the general emphasis is on too much weight, whereas the guru uses very little weight, like 1 to at the most 3 size BB split shot. This float and nymph outfit would be difficult and possibly impossible to cast efficiently on a spinning rod. And using enough float and weight to cast it with a spinning rod would render it a less sensitive and effective presentation.

Therefore there is well thought out logic in using a fly rod and reel to gear fish with a float and split shot. It takes some skill, probably in the way that the wet fly swing takes some skill, with neither being quite as difficult as detecting a steelhead take of a fresh cluster egg bait.

Bobber and jig fishing with spinning gear is very effective, but it's not always as effective as good nymphing technique. Let me tell a story. The names are omitted to protect the guilty suspects. Three guys were assigned to collect some steelhead genetic samples from a river with difficult access and a limited number of steelhead present. Two anglers are high-liner guides of repute, and they know it and act like it. The third was an agency technician who held the special sampling permit. The guides provided the raft and fishing tackle, as they had determined that bobber and jig were the best and most effective gear and technique for the task. The technician showed up with his single hand 8 wt fly rod and certain nymphing paraphernalia. The guides offered him a spinning rod complete wtih bobber and jig, but the tech would rather stick with his fly rod. So the guides said he could stay in the rear seat sucking hind tit cuz his method would be a waste of time and space in the forward seat. The guides switched off fishing from the front with bobbers and jigs while the tech stuck with his fly rod nymphing from the back.

You can see where this is going. At the end of the day, they had collected 10 samples, with the high-liner guides accounting for one and the nympher 9. I don't tell this story well, but told right, over beer in a tavern after a long day of fishing, it can be all kinds of hilarious, especially knowing the guilty suspects.
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
I disagree with you on this Rob. (Big surprise, huh?) I fished with a nymphing guru some years ago just to study the technique. A real student doesn't use just any bobber. The bobber, indicator, or float choice is critical to both the efficiency and effectiveness of the presentation. Also the weight hung below that float. I think the general emphasis is on too much weight, whereas the guru uses very little weight, like 1 to at the most 3 size BB split shot. This float and nymph outfit would be difficult and possibly impossible to cast efficiently on a spinning rod. And using enough float and weight to cast it with a spinning rod would render it a less sensitive and effective presentation.

Therefore there is well thought out logic in using a fly rod and reel to gear fish with a float and split shot. It takes some skill, probably in the way that the wet fly swing takes some skill, with neither being quite as difficult as detecting a steelhead take of a fresh cluster egg bait.

Bobber and jig fishing with spinning gear is very effective, but it's not always as effective as good nymphing technique. Let me tell a story. The names are omitted to protect the guilty suspects. Three guys were assigned to collect some steelhead genetic samples from a river with difficult access and a limited number of steelhead present. Two anglers are high-liner guides of repute, and they know it and act like it. The third was an agency technician who held the special sampling permit. The guides provided the raft and fishing tackle, as they had determined that bobber and jig were the best and most effective gear and technique for the task. The technician showed up with his single hand 8 wt fly rod and certain nymphing paraphernalia. The guides offered him a spinning rod complete wtih bobber and jig, but the tech would rather stick with his fly rod. So the guides said he could stay in the rear seat sucking hind tit cuz his method would be a waste of time and space in the forward seat. The guides switched off fishing from the front with bobbers and jigs while the tech stuck with his fly rod nymphing from the back.

You can see where this is going. At the end of the day, they had collected 10 samples, with the high-liner guides accounting for one and the nympher 9. I don't tell this story well, but told right, over beer in a tavern after a long day of fishing, it can be all kinds of hilarious, especially knowing the guilty suspects.
Did the guides give him a tip at the end of the day?
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
After reading your previous posts about this, I tried some dick nites off my spey rod. I didn't like it all that much for spey fishing but I love them off the jetty for rockfish, you can launch those things a mile with a shooting a head.
I felt the same way the first time I used an indicator in a river. Fishing the Kenai for rainbows. I fished the “traditional” pegged bead under an indicator for much of a morning and absolutely hated the experience. I finally changed up to a wet fly without the indicator and fished it with far more success and enjoyment.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
I'll keep fishing with people who aren't bent out of shape when I call indicator fishing fly fishing. Here I am fishing next to Charles:

Me: Hey look Charles, I'm fly fishing with an indicator.
Charles: That is not fly fishing.
Me: (Hooking another fish and bending my rod out of the shape it was before) Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

See how bent out of shape I would be?
You seem pretty bent out of shape.

Bobber.

Go sox,
Cds
 
Likes: JS

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
You seem pretty bent out of shape.

Bobber.

Go sox,
Cds
Denier. But yes, my rod is often bent out of the shape it was in. I thought we already established that. Denier.

So, Charles, a dry fly is just a bobber to you? A buddy of mine created a fairly effective indicator pattern that he hooked steelhead on. Casted it just like a dry fly. Was it a bobber? Is a hopper a bobber? Denier.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
Denier. But yes, my rod is often bent out of the shape it was in. I thought we already established that. Denier.

So, Charles, a dry fly is just a bobber to you? A buddy of mine created a fairly effective indicator pattern that he hooked steelhead on. Casted it just like a dry fly. Was it a bobber? Is a hopper a bobber? Denier.
You aren't getting the big picture here.

What I think doesn't matter. Go fish and have fun. If you need my respect or approval you aren't ever gonna get it, not only because I don't care for bobber fishing with a fly rod but because your seeking an it. You aren't gonna get an explanation, respect, approval, recognition or anything else.

Bobber nymphing is skim milk, man. I'm Ron Swanson. I'm not gonna use one for the same reason I buy whole milk. Plus, I have used them and I find the technique to be unpleasant. You aren't going to change my mind with your analogies. I'm not going to respect your argument. I don't care what level of logic you think your using. I don't care about what you think, it doesn't matter. I am in awe that you care what I think enough to keep asking me questions.

Go on and fish your way. Give your seminars and speeches. Fish with your friends and laugh. Do your thing. I'll ignore the whole thing like I usually do until I have a moment of weakness and fall off the Indi "ira" Jones wagon and see how worked up you get in another year or so.

With any luck I'll be fishing how I like along with the reprobates SalmoG mentioned earlier.

Go Sox,
cds
 
Likes: JS
You aren't getting the big picture here.

What I think doesn't matter. Go fish and have fun. If you need my respect or approval you aren't ever gonna get it, not only because I don't care for bobber fishing with a fly rod but because your seeking an it. You aren't gonna get an explanation, respect, approval, recognition or anything else.

Bobber nymphing is skim milk, man. I'm Ron Swanson. I'm not gonna use one for the same reason I buy whole milk. Plus, I have used them and I find the technique to be unpleasant. You aren't going to change my mind with your analogies. I'm not going to respect your argument. I don't care what level of logic you think your using. I don't care about what you think, it doesn't matter. I am in awe that you care what I think enough to keep asking me questions.

Go on and fish your way. Give your seminars and speeches. Fish with your friends and laugh. Do your thing. I'll ignore the whole thing like I usually do until I have a moment of weakness and fall off the Indi "ira" Jones wagon and see how worked up you get in another year or so.

With any luck I'll be fishing how I like along with the reprobates SalmoG mentioned earlier.

Go Sox,
cds
great post and important points charles. but ignoring the topic is not your strong point, nor mine, or iras. I agree though, everyone should fish however they like and not fucking care what tactic others are using until it crosses a legal threshold. then its time to speak up.

i think we all need to come together, join forces, and use our combined powers to fight piss poor fish handling and poaching instead, or even working together to change that legal threshold if some techniques are truely putting a precious resource in peril..... im tired of bobbers vs swing creating division among us.

In summary.
Can you fly fish with a bober : yes
can you gear fish with a bobber : yes
is it the same : not really
is it similar : yes
can you gear fish with flies : yes
is all of it irrelevant if you hold a wild fish by the gill plate : yes
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
You aren't getting the big picture here.

What I think doesn't matter. Go fish and have fun. If you need my respect or approval you aren't ever gonna get it, not only because I don't care for bobber fishing with a fly rod but because your seeking an it. You aren't gonna get an explanation, respect, approval, recognition or anything else.

Bobber nymphing is skim milk, man. I'm Ron Swanson. I'm not gonna use one for the same reason I buy whole milk. Plus, I have used them and I find the technique to be unpleasant. You aren't going to change my mind with your analogies. I'm not going to respect your argument. I don't care what level of logic you think your using. I don't care about what you think, it doesn't matter. I am in awe that you care what I think enough to keep asking me questions.

Go on and fish your way. Give your seminars and speeches. Fish with your friends and laugh. Do your thing. I'll ignore the whole thing like I usually do until I have a moment of weakness and fall off the Indi "ira" Jones wagon and see how worked up you get in another year or so.

With any luck I'll be fishing how I like along with the reprobates SalmoG mentioned earlier.

Go Sox,
cds
Nice dodge. You realized how flawed your argument was and attempted a different tact. Funny how you think asking questions is somehow seeking your respect. You say I’m not going to get anything from you, but every time you respond, I get exactly what I want from you!

Also good to know that you don’t like logic. Glad you could admit it. Great step. But I already knew that about you.


I’m so worked up!!! Ha!
 

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