You gotta love the NEW EPA!


Active Member
We can ALWAYS do better.
Yes we can...employee and employer alike.
Btw...not applying fault to employees at all; however, we as employees or employers have a shared responsibility when it comes to workplace safety.
Unfortunately, chasing the all mighty buck has a way of putting the blinders on people.
Wish it wasn't so...

The T.O. Show

Buenos Hatches Ese
There was a photo of kayaks floating in a yellow river posted early in this exchange. Obviously the
river in contaminated but ask yourself what are the kayaks made out of, where does the color come from in the clothes the people
are wearing, for that mater where does the fabric the clothes are made from come from.
That was the Animas river which was polluted by a tailings pond from an abandoned gold mine, so the comparison isn't really relevant unless those kayaks were made from gold. I get what you are saying though, but I don't think that the recognition of our consumerism is an excuse or justification for polluting our water whether it's from a mine, power plant, or just some idiot dumping his used motor oil down a storm drain. We can drive cars and wear clothes and still demand better from the industries that produce those things. 70% of freshwater pollution in the US comes from coal production and consumption. We can do better in that arena and still wear shoes with rubber soles. It's not one or the other, it's really not.
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How much "clean" are we willing to pay for? That's the real question. The Animas spill was created by the EPA...they spilled a pond of pollution that a mining company had held back for a long while. Any idea why that happened? EPA likely knows if it was a mistake or intentional, I'm not convinced it wasn't intentional. I am 100% convinced the EPA has made "too many" moves in the last few years that were intended to make a statement and deny landowners their legal rights.
Our air and water are cleaner to day than they were years ago
before we had the clean air and water acts.
I really don't want to get dragged back into the mess that I helped generate.... but I don't believe that's true.

By the way, I agree that the EPA is going about some of it's actions in less productive ways than it could be. I probably have different views on what would be considered the right way to conduct operations, and it differs greatly from what the current EPA is doing, but I'll leave that alone.
For an enlightened progressive, you sure are hypocritical for the health of the environment you so fondly profess to want.

Bonsai's post sums it up immensely.
I leave my fishing areas clean, I pick up garage, and even try to restore. Lol. But back to the EPA. They do not protect our environment under Trump. Fact. Drilling and fracking cause huge issues. For example, Oklahoma is now earthquake alley not tornado. I am going to practice what I preach. When you see that someone will not look at the facts (you may want to try a pro and con sheet like my students complete) and understand the topic as a whole, and can't see how Trump's agenda is hurting the very thing YOU profess to know, no understanding or debate can take place. Progressive, always, as long as its not hurting anyone.
Nice to see I didn’t offend anyone to bad. I am going to try to answer some of the comments made about my post. Who is Bump? My intent wasn’t to relate the kayaks to the Animas River. Simply to recognize the fact the river was polluted and the fact that the kayaks, the synthetic material and the dye used in the clothes are byproducts from oil and coal, one of the bad boys in this discussion. I don’t know that 70% of the freshwater pollution in the US comes from coal production and consumption. The figure may be true. There are many factors that contribute to that problem. How much "clean" are we willing to pay for? Complicated question to answer. There is the monetary cost and the cost of lost businesses and jobs. The environmental regulations put many foundries out of business, but we still need the products they produced. The products they produced are now made overseas with little or no environmental or OSHA regulation. So we are still responsible for the issue, it just isn’t in our back yard. I drove down Hwy 367 in Pittsburg in the mid 60’s and could see the polluted Monongehela River. I drove down the same highway 30 later and could see the river was in much better shape. I am confident it would not be considered pristine. Also the smoke stacks are not bellowing out the pollution that they once did, most of the plants are now closed. The question for us as individuals is: What are we willing to do about it? Turn down the heat, live in a smaller house, drive less, (how would we get from Seattle to Henry’s Fork to catch those beautiful fish), ware only natural fiber clothes without bright colors, go bare foot (leather tanning uses some real nasty stuff). I could go on but I hope you get the idea. By the way I mentioned foundries because my family owned one.

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