Skagit Catch & Release debate.

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
It's super frustrating for me to read stuff that uses Bill McMillan science. I'm quite sure that Kerry is right with where the estimate comes from. The Nooksack was supposed to have over 100,000 steelhead to according to those estimates. It's embarrassingly bad.

There are proposals as far as regulating a fishery that I would support that are likely in line with what Rich is writing about. The problem is that he does not even understand who authored the plan. He's not understanding who comes up with the angling rules (it is not the feds). He does not seem to understand the process or roles and responsibilities of the agencies involved.

His interpretation of the data is questionable and unsubstantiated. He does not even speak to weather/ environmental related causes for the decline at the time of listing. He overemphasizes what role a lack of hatchery fish or angling pressure could have on a rebound. I'm pretty sure that we fished for those fish in 08-09. I didn't land any because it's hard to catch one when the run size is that low. Their offspring more than doubled in run size. Why then would we credit decreased angling pressure in any way?

The biggest issue is that he isn't making a proposal as to what should be done. He does not show how the proposed monitoring falls short, or the rules or anything else. If you want to make a proposal, do it.

It's super frustrating because to those who don't take the time to look themselves, ask bio's, and think, their education will be from pieces like this. I don't think that is good for the resource.

Go Sox,
cds
 
The short sighted, 100% selfish desire of some of you is mind blowing.

You don't think Bill McMillan (signee on that letter) wants to fish the river he lives on and has dedicated much of his life to restoring? of course he does, but he cares about the future of the fishery more.

This is a prime chance to do things right, not rush into things, and protect the river for future generations of fisherman to enjoy as well.

Stop being so ****ing selfish and open your eyes to the big picture.
What he said.
 
I was intentially not trying to turn it into a shit slinging contest and offer constructive comments. I do support the work of occupy Skagit and it’s opening as stated before.

Read it. HE SAYS NOTHING. What he does say is half truths and slanted. Used to respect that guy and saw eye to eye on a few things. Still do on some. Yet sadly like many he sees the world as how he wants it to be and not what is. If he had these opinions where were they a year ago? I would love to see a fly only fishery and no tribal nets. I think that would be most enjoyable for me and best for the fish. I'm a realist though and compromise is the harbinger of diplomacy. One has to work in the real world which is far from ideal. That still doesn't stop folks from signalling their infallible moral compass to garner support from the echo chamber they hold so dear. The real diplomacy is finding common ground among your opposition. That's the real skill of statesmen. Digging moats around your camp is far more visually compelling and garners views but building bridges garners results. Results are almost never perfect. Don't let perfect become the enemy of good.
 
I'm staying out of this one, but C'mon DC. If yer gonna talk shit then own it.....

On a positive note I figured out how people do multiple quotes in one post. @Skip Enge should be bale to talk in the 3rd, 4th, even 5th person now! :p
 
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I'm staying out of this one, but C'mon DC. If yer gonna talk shit then own it.....

On a positive note I figured out how people do multiple quotes in one post. @Skip Enge should be bale to talk in the 3rd, 4th, even 5th person now! :p
Fair enough. I'll own it and retract my statements. They were unnecessarily contentious and not in the spirit of good discussion. My apologies. Clearly I have an opinion. That doesn't exempt me from being diplomatic about it. Many things come across poorly in print that would otherwise be better recieved and presented in person with some raport.
 
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Fair enough. I'll own it and retract my statements. They were unnecessarily contentious and not in the spirit of good discussion. My apologies. Clearly I have an opinion. That doesn't exempt me from being diplomatic about it. Many things come across poorly in print that would otherwise be better recieved and presented in person with some raport.
Perhaps over an unknown brand of porter? :p I'm buying...but I want a tall boy with a church key vent. fancy like.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
Whenever you put yourself out there in print either here or as Rich has done, you open your argument up to criticism. The discussion always goes best if criticism is aimed at the article or discussion point rather than the person.

We are all guilty of attacking the person, myself included, but it is not helpful compared to debating the merits of the argument. Many times it is difficult here because you can't debate Rich. He isn't here. Often times WSC members get angry because they take the criticism as an attack on their org. or themselves.

In this case WSC and hatch magazine should take some heat IMO. That piece of writing does not stand up to any level of scrutiny. His personal opinion is fine but the "fact" as he states them are pretty far off. He does not even have the plan author correct. It's a bad look.

I write at work a fair bit. I have people proof read what I write prior to making it available to the public. My unsolicited advice is that Rich and WSC do the same in the future. An alternative perspective outside of the echo chamber we all tend to put ourselves in could yield a much better product. In my opinion outside review makes for a piece of writing more likely to help get to the desired outcome.

Go Sox,
cds
 

golfman44

5-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year
Fair enough. I'll own it and retract my statements. They were unnecessarily contentious and not in the spirit of good discussion. My apologies. Clearly I have an opinion. That doesn't exempt me from being diplomatic about it. Many things come across poorly in print that would otherwise be better recieved and presented in person with some raport.
Pussy.
 

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