Methow opening?

BDD

Active Member
#18
Just seems the upper Columbia runs are done...I don't see enough change happening to save them
Maybe. However, steelhead populations were down everywhere the past few years, in areas with relatively good habitat...from the OP to VI to the Skeena. There are lots of reasons but far and above, the most compelling is ocean conditions. It seems like no matter what we do with harvest, habitat, or hydro, the primary factor is found in the Pacific.

Regarding hatchery releases in the Methow, I have often thought it might be beneficial to base your hatchery release numbers on the marine survival forecast. In years of suspected low survival, increase your plants and in years of predicted higher marine survival, reduce your plants. This might work good for federal programs but for PUD mitigation, it would be a tougher sell. I mean, who wants to pay for a hatchery program only to have your ESA-listed fish wind up in a trout lake, in years when you have a surplus number of hatchery smolts?
 

almostacatch

Let it Angle on the Dangle
#19
The use of poor genetic material in hatchery programs in the upper Columbia doesn't help their cause either. How quickly bleeding hearts forget the Clearwater Bs are mostly clipped. As long as we are codependent on an "Emergency Opener" for the removal of hatchery fish in the Methow without hatchery stocks it's likely that I won't be able to catch a Methow steelhead again in my lifetime. Hopefully my boys have a chance. I see it both ways, but after the position the .org crowd took on the Skagit the heat gun helped thin the "sticker" herd. Now it simply looks like "RELEASE WILD FISH". I'll let the bios write their own way to infamy just not using my paycheck anymore. One day when my kids go out with me and "cast" a two handed rod I'll be able to tell them this used to be a skill that once caught fish. Hopefully they'll have the chance and they aren't lost to the app world by then? Since we've taken away every reason to go outside and be a part of nature; because the bleeding heart "bio" crowd is lost in funding another "study" and not finding wholistic and sustainable ways to create viability. How about some #results and not some #speculation?
 
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Rob Allen

Active Member
#20
I grew up on the Washougal river caught mt first fish of just about every species there. I have walked it many times it's entire open length, caught salmin and steelhead from almost every pool capable of holding them. It's open 365 days a year and I'll likely never catch another steelhead there.

Some may not like this and some people might get angry but your anger doesn't make you right. Hatcheries got us all hooked on fishing that our rivers are incapable of sustaining. What's happening on the upper Columbia is not unique. South West Washington has been suffering from a sever fish shortage since 1990.
By the way the Methow still gets huge plants of summer steelhead as does the Wenatchee.
 
#21
I’ve heard different about Stealhead being planted on the Method and Wenatchee. Those fish have been nominated as a protected species. I just talked to a WDFW biologist this afternoon at the Sportsman show that’s in town, Wenatchee that is.
The whole Stealhead issue is being managed now By Washington DC. Which he agrees is stupid.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#22
I could be wrong but in years where there is poor ocean survival ir mostly has to do with food. The more fish you plant the more that will just die in the ocean.
 

JACKspASS

Active Member
#23
Rob, go to Idaho F&G and look at their plant #'s for steelhead. When you plant millions of smolts you get back tens of thousands of steelhead to support many fisheries. In bad ocean cycles there are still enough returning to have a season, albeit more regulated. The Meth and Wenatchee only get 300k smolts, right? That ain't shit. In a great ocean cycle you have fisheries, in average to poor cycles you get nothing, not to mention the dams take their share.

There are a couple rivers in Idaho that used to have native steelhead which were wiped out due to a dam, the dam was removed along time ago, f&g plants 1mil smolts a year and everybody goes out and catches steelhead, good or bad year.

I know every river system is different, but for these upper Columbia systems, they rely heavily on hatchery steelhead.....take them out and nobody will ever wet a line again

Just my .02
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#25
Rob, go to Idaho F&G and look at their plant #'s for steelhead. When you plant millions of smolts you get back tens of thousands of steelhead to support many fisheries. In bad ocean cycles there are still enough returning to have a season, albeit more regulated. The Meth and Wenatchee only get 300k smolts, right? That ain't shit. In a great ocean cycle you have fisheries, in average to poor cycles you get nothing, not to mention the dams take their share.

There are a couple rivers in Idaho that used to have native steelhead which were wiped out due to a dam, the dam was removed along time ago, f&g plants 1mil smolts a year and everybody goes out and catches steelhead, good or bad year.

I know every river system is different, but for these upper Columbia systems, they rely heavily on hatchery steelhead.....take them out and nobody will ever wet a line again

Just my .02
unfortunately it tales more than .02 to raise millions of steelhead smolts to plant and WDFW doesn't have it. Apparently Idaho does
 
#26
Like most fisheries they were definitely taken for granted. In my short time steelheading with a fly (08 to present) I’ve seen the end of hatchery plants on most of the Strait rivers which increased the tribal netting on the remaining streams to defcon level: extermination. Good luck wild steelhead, late run coho or anything else that use to exist in those rivers..... I’ve seen the closure of upper Columbia tribs.... again. After a short return to glory, hatchery plants get hacked down and away goes the fishery. Now the klick and deschutes are such a zoo I’ve lost interest. The end of hatchery plants on the snoqualmie summer run.... damn that was fun, easy and local and they even ate swung flies on a dry line. The closure of NF stilly has led to a big increase in pressure on the skykomish which is complimented nicely by the railroads decision to criminalize people crossing the tracks which is simply a part of life on the sky. Double the people, halve the access.... nice. That’s IF the sky gamefish season isn’t a victim of the NOF Salmon process.. hoh river may springer season closed.... no more trucking hatchery fish up the SF sky..... on and on and on... and people at the dot.orgs wonder why they are losing fellowship when they contend the reopening of 30% of the skagit in a severely limited impact season.....
 
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Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
#27
Like most fisheries they were definitely taken for granted. In my short time steelheading with a fly (08 to present) I’ve seen the end of hatchery plants on most of the Strait rivers which increased the tribal netting on the remaining streams to defcon level: extermination. Good luck wild steelhead, late run coho or anything else that use to exist in those rivers..... I’ve seen the closure of upper Columbia tribs.... again. After a short return to glory, hatchery plants get hacked down and away goes the fishery. Now the klick and deschutes are such a zoo I’ve lost interest. The end of hatchery plants on the snoqualmie summer run.... damn that was fun, easy and local and they even ate swung flies on a dry line. The closure of NF stilly has led to a big increase in pressure on the skykomish which is complimented nicely by the railroads decision to criminalize people crossing the tracks which is simply a part of life on the sky. Double the people, halve the access.... nice. That’s IF the sky gamefish season isn’t a victim of the NOF Salmon process.. hoh river may springer season closed.... no more trucking hatchery fish up the SF sky..... on and on and on... and people at the dot.orgs wonder why they are losing fellowship when they contend the reopening of 30% of the skagit in a severely limited impact season.....
Isn't that the truth. It's hard to remain hopeful.

Go Sox,
cds
 

karnage

Have you swung a fly today?-
#28
Well, I can make things normal again real fast. Hypothetically speaking, if the Methow were to open to remove excess hatchery fish, would the most ethical fishing technique be:

a. Nymphing with an indicator
b. Nymphing without an indicator
c. Swinging with a floating line
d. Swinging with a sinktip
e. Centerpinning
f. Spoon Fishing
g. 2-Hander with a Dick Nite
h. The method that you are most skilled at
i. None of the above (write in your own method)
j. Any of the above
Dynamite
 
#29
The whole Stealhead issue is being managed now By Washington DC. Which he agrees is stupid.
While it is hard to imagine DC doing a better job, it is almost as hard to image a worse job over the last few decades that got us here.

Switching the brood stock over to wild stock means the hatchery run returns at the same time as the wild run. Which means that I'm being unethical in fishing for them and/or the only point of this hatchery run is to fund someone's netting. Do I have that right?
 

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