NFR Flu Shots – yes or no?

Rob Allen

Active Member
Wrong. The vaccine reduces symptoms and mortality of those who still get the flu.

"Some people who get vaccinated may still get sick. However, flu vaccination has been shown in some studies to reduce severity of illness in people who get vaccinated but still get sick. A 2017 study showed that flu vaccination reduced deaths, intensive care unit (ICU) admissions, ICU length of stay, and overall duration of hospitalization among hospitalized flu patients. Another study in 2018 showed that a vaccinated adult who was hospitalized with flu was 59 percent less likely to be admitted to the Intensive Care Unit than someone who had not been vaccinated. Among adults in the ICU with flu, vaccinated patients on average spent 4 fewer days in the hospital than those who were not vaccinated. In addition, it’s important to remember that flu vaccine protects against three or 4 different viruses and multiple viruses usually circulate during any one season. For these reasons, CDC continues to recommend flu vaccination for everyone 6 months and older even if vaccine effectiveness against one or more viruses is reduced."

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

So i guess people have a good chance of getting the flu should get a flu shot.

People unlikely to get the flu shot should probably be left alone. Please, thank you
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
Wow. You mean like an election 2 years ago? Rob, if you had just said that at the beginning of this thread it wouldn't have made it past page 2. I'm sure everyone on this site is truly sorry that you have felt bullied!
The election 2 years ago was a response to 8 years of bullying.
 

Matt Paluch

Active Member
So i guess people have a good chance of getting the flu should get a flu shot.

People unlikely to get the flu shot should probably be left alone. Please, thank you
All you have to do is stop making incorrect statements to justify your position. Stop doing that and we don't have to talk. You start spewing a bunch of nonsense like "experts are wrong as often as they're right," and I'll make you look even more foolish than you already do.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
All you have to do is stop making incorrect statements to justify your position. Stop doing that and we don't have to talk. You start spewing a bunch of nonsense like "experts are wrong as often as they're right," and I'll make you look even more foolish than you already do.
I have not said anything incorrect.

I have quoted the CDC. And asked for you not to try and run my life.

If you have problems with my quotes from thr CDC take it up with them

If you feel the need to run my life well then see my previous posts about being tyrant.
 
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Matt Paluch

Active Member
I have not said anything correct.

I have quoted the CDC. And asked for you not to try and run my life.

If you have problems with my quotes from thr CDC takevit up with them

If you feel the need tobrin my life well then see my previous posts about being tyrant.
Glad to see that you realize this finally! ^^^
 

dflett68

Active Member
I am not spreading any information about the flu. I am standing up for my rights not ti get a shot.

I take that back i think a while back i mentioned how ineffective the vacvine is, at least compared to other vacvines.

There are a lot worse things to mess around with than the flu. Individual liberty being one of them.

I am not anti vaccine. Just anti bully.

Telling people they are bad for not getting the shot is bullying.
for god's sake rob, you're not going to get into foxe's book of martyrs for losing the "right" to buy a machine gun at 7-11. when we disagree as adults, we can still respect each other (perhaps not intellectually, but at least as equals). that would seem to be the essence of your plea for individual liberty - mutual respect, to be treated as an equal? but when you talk about bullying, it just puts the whole thing on the drama triangle of a six year old. how powerless are you?
 

Matt Paluch

Active Member
Crying oppression when nobody told him he has to get the shot is just a crybaby way to try to get people to feel sorry for him after getting destroyed on the merits of the discussion. Again, he could have just said he wasn't getting the shot and left it at that. Rather than doing that, he decided to post a bunch of crap about the vaccine that was either outright false or he didn't understand it. Since he couldn't defend his nonsense opinions on vaccines, he resorted to claiming that I'm a tyrant for telling him what to do - which I never did. Rob's just a whiny man child who argues topics he has no understanding of then he feels bad for himself when people aren't sensitive to his feelings.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
Because personal liberty is the paramount concept for civilization to rhrive.
Rob, I'm pulling out this quote as your latest example of how your statements of absolutes get you cross-wise with both logic and fact. I do not devalue personal liberty, but stay with me a few moments and see if you agree with the logic.

The paramount, or number one reason why human beings group together to form societies and civilizations is mutual aid and protection. They and we do this because it's more efficient and sometimes simply makes things possible to do in groups than a solitary person can do. This includes hunting, gathering, making shelter, and protecting each other from predators and enemies. This has been true since Caveman societies to today where we have advanced civilizations with cities, roads, schools, military, and a host of other attributes of civilization. Now, if personal liberty were the paramount value, or concept as you called it, you would have to dissociate yourself from citizenship of this and all countries and states, be an anarchist, and rely solely on yourself for every living need. To the extent that you agree to be a citizen and live in civilization, you compromise some amount of your personal liberty, as does everyone else, in order to get along together, and basically derive the many benefits of "'mutual aid and protection." What we do in the U.S. is try to maintain more personal liberty than other nations do, but we try to maintain that liberty while also obtaining as many of the benefits of society and civilization as we can, without giving up too much of that liberty.

Where that line is, between liberty and society is fuzzy because individuals vary in their interpretation. This makes it the legitimate topic of intelligent debate, discourse, and even disagreement. You describe it in your usual black and white, no gray, style of absolutism, even while you yourself are absolutely dependent on giving up some degree of liberty in order to enjoy the beneficial attributes of your American lifestyle. You have to obey laws decided by a majority that you might disagree with personally, but were adopted by society (us) for the "greater good" because you cannot exist on your own without. You see, I'm not saying that personal liberty is unimportant. It's just that it cannot be the absolute paramount value since you cannot survive without some of the attributes of society. No human can.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
Crying oppression when nobody told him he has to get the shot is just a crybaby way to try to get people to feel sorry for him after getting destroyed on the merits of the discussion. Again, he could have just said he wasn't getting the shot and left it at that. Rather than doing that, he decided to post a bunch of crap about the vaccine that was either outright false or he didn't understand it. Since he couldn't defend his nonsense opinions on vaccines, he resorted to claiming that I'm a tyrant for telling him what to do - which I never did. Rob's just a whiny man child who argues topics he has no understanding of then he feels bad for himself when people aren't sensitive to his feelings.

Your entire post is a lie.

everything i said about the vaccine was from the CDC and fully understood

In a nutshell. the vaccine can reduce symptoms but sucks at prevention.

I actually have no interest in the issue until people start saying it's immoral to not get a flu shot which is what has occurred here.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
Rob, I'm pulling out this quote as your latest example of how your statements of absolutes get you cross-wise with both logic and fact. I do not devalue personal liberty, but stay with me a few moments and see if you agree with the logic.

The paramount, or number one reason why human beings group together to form societies and civilizations is mutual aid and protection. They and we do this because it's more efficient and sometimes simply makes things possible to do in groups than a solitary person can do. This includes hunting, gathering, making shelter, and protecting each other from predators and enemies. This has been true since Caveman societies to today where we have advanced civilizations with cities, roads, schools, military, and a host of other attributes of civilization. Now, if personal liberty were the paramount value, or concept as you called it, you would have to dissociate yourself from citizenship of this and all countries and states, be an anarchist, and rely solely on yourself for every living need. To the extent that you agree to be a citizen and live in civilization, you compromise some amount of your personal liberty, as does everyone else, in order to get along together, and basically derive the many benefits of "'mutual aid and protection." What we do in the U.S. is try to maintain more personal liberty than other nations do, but we try to maintain that liberty while also obtaining as many of the benefits of society and civilization as we can, without giving up too much of that liberty.

Where that line is, between liberty and society is fuzzy because individuals vary in their interpretation. This makes it the legitimate topic of intelligent debate, discourse, and even disagreement. You describe it in your usual black and white, no gray, style of absolutism, even while you yourself are absolutely dependent on giving up some degree of liberty in order to enjoy the beneficial attributes of your American lifestyle. You have to obey laws decided by a majority that you might disagree with personally, but were adopted by society (us) for the "greater good" because you cannot exist on your own without. You see, I'm not saying that personal liberty is unimportant. It's just that it cannot be the absolute paramount value since you cannot survive without some of the attributes of society. No human can.
Chuck Norris could.

Hope you are doing well G.

Go Sox,
cds
 

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