Why people in eastern Washington don't like wind farms.....

smc

Active Member
Power’s out upriver too. Honda 7000i genny purring away. ipad tethered to cell for internet. Hamsters huddling under cover to keep from getting blown away.
 

Vladimir Steblina

Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working
King County already relies on the Snoqualmie Falls Hydro plant. I'm not sure whether the Cedar Falls Dam is still in use as a hydroelectric facility, but assume it could come back on line if it's currently inactive. That might get you fairly close to 50% (I need to check generating capacity), but if not, there are of course there a number of other rivers that could be dammed for hydro plants as well.

Overall, if King County had to generate a significant percentage of its electricity internally, it would be in about as good a position as any other county in the state, despite much larger demand. That's not to say that their wouldn't be adverse environmental impacts, of course.

King County and western Washington generate VERY LITTLE power on their own. Of all the power generated in the Northwest western Washington generates 25% and most of that 75% in from fossil fuels.

To give you some indications of the HUGE amounts of energy King County consumes......7.5 percent of ALL BPA sales are with Seattle City Light. That is the output from 7.5 percent from 31 Federal dams....and that only supplies half of the Seattle's needs. That is NOT including other cities and towns in King County that use BPA power.

And it doesn't include the areas in King County served by Puget Sound Energy.

And that is the dirty, little secret about the Snake River Dams. They are NOT coming out, because the replacement power is too expensive too large to generate without significant public controversy.

The top five users of BPA power are primarily in western Washington and consume 35% of BPA electricity.

I not sure what percentage of the electricity used in western Washington is generated in western Washington, but my guess is probably around 10% or so, maybe less.

Perhaps somebody has those statistics. I don't have the time right now to track the data down, and it doesn't seem to be available.

PS...37% of PSE power does come from Colstrip with is scheduled for closure. As is the Centralia coal plant. Not sure of the status of the Boardman coal plant. BUT just replacing the electricity generated by coal in the Northwest will be interesting.

The good news is demand for electricity is slowly trending down, but not sure what the increase in electric cars will do to electrical demand.
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
Dude, do you realize the carbon footprint of hamster food? Just google hamster food pit mines of mountainous Nebraska.
Used only for emergency network communications. Gen set for operations all of which is in “veg” mode, 12 on, 12 off. Currently operating in off or dark mode. Units closed up tight to preserve heat. Hopefully power restored before transition to light mode otherwise will need to employ gen set and more hamsters.
 

Yard Sale

Huge Member
Unless all the products you use are designed and built locally you can’t really complain about where the energy goes.

In the first post victor complained that part of the energy was sent to California. Now where exactly do you think the computer you are using to post said complaint was designed and built? It sure as hell wasn’t eastern Washington.
 

HBB

Active Member
Vladimir, I was just responding to another poster who posed the question of what would happen if King County had to produce 50% of its electricity internally. My point is that King County, with significant hydropower resources within its borders--and an enormous tax base--would not be in bad shape.

Setting aside that hypothetical, yeah. of course Seattle City Light and PSE purchase power from outside their service region, with Seattle City Light getting a big chunk of its power from the Pend Orielle. It's cheap--why wouldn't they?
 

Sportsman

Active Member
Here's a fun nuclear fact:

The fuel sitting in the spent fuel storage and dry casks is only 5 to 10% used. That means if we re-processed and extracted the unused fuel we could run our reactors for 10 to 20 times longer without ever mining uranium again. Given the 40 year life of our reactors that is 400 to 800 years without mining!

This "bury it in the in the ground" philosophy is flat wrong...thank the Carter administration.

It seems like our country is using nuclear power about as inefficiently as we possibly can! Thank deregulation of the utilities for that...thank the Reagan administration.
1. There is no such thing as a 'fun' nuclear fact.
2. We were burying that poison in the ground when Carter was jerking off to the Sears catalog.
3. All we need to do is dig up Hanford and power the world forever? Looking for a new job? The feds are trying to deny compensation for the sick workers right now.
4. Just some more fun nuclear facts!
 
The "what if each county had to" game is one that may be fun to play, but isn't very meaningful. Yes, most of the energy production comes from eastern WA, but much more of the economic activity in this state is generated in King Co and that is the engine that drives much of the state, if not the whole PNW. The fact of the matter is that commerce exists because resources are not uniformly distributed across the face of the earth, so we barter among different regions to take advantage of the resources where they are found. Debating the pros and cons of that is nonsensical, unless you want to debate the pros and cons of capitalism, itself. Similarly, saying that only people who, by chance or by choice, happen to live in one place should have a say in how publicly owned resources are utilized there is nonsensical, within the constraints of how states and nations are drawn.
 

longputt

Active Member
1. There is no such thing as a 'fun' nuclear fact.
2. We were burying that poison in the ground when Carter was jerking off to the Sears catalog.
3. All we need to do is dig up Hanford and power the world forever? Looking for a new job? The feds are trying to deny compensation for the sick workers right now.
4. Just some more fun nuclear facts!

Unfortunately, your facts are indeed facts (although I'd have to ask Carter to be sure!) and not fun.

The problem with your facts is that they are not true of nuclear energy used for electricity. The Hanford waste is ENTIRELY related to the production of bombs and not electricity. It is huge image problem for the nuclear generated electrical industry. Prior to Carter the goal of nuclear waste from electrical generation was to re-process and recycle the fuel to minimize waste. Burying it is just plain stupid.

Unfortunately, the image that was created at Hanford is so bad you probably would never believe me. But it is true Hanford is a completely different problem than nuclear generated electricity.

Another fun nuclear fact: If the electricity you consume in a lifetime was generated by nuclear reactors the waste would fit into 12 oz pop can.
 

longputt

Active Member
The "what if each county had to" game is one that may be fun to play, but isn't very meaningful. Yes, most of the energy production comes from eastern WA, but much more of the economic activity in this state is generated in King Co and that is the engine that drives much of the state, if not the whole PNW. The fact of the matter is that commerce exists because resources are not uniformly distributed across the face of the earth, so we barter among different regions to take advantage of the resources where they are found. Debating the pros and cons of that is nonsensical, unless you want to debate the pros and cons of capitalism, itself. Similarly, saying that only people who, by chance or by choice, happen to live in one place should have a say in how publicly owned resources are utilized there is nonsensical, within the constraints of how states and nations are drawn.

The "what if" here is: What if Seattle had to put up with wind machines in their backyard? Would they use better (and viable) energy technologies? Right now out of sight out of mind is polluting E WA unnecessarily. Can we cover Newport Hills with wind machines? Please?

So because W WA pays more tax than E WA, W WA can just pollute at will.

By your logic: If you have the money you can dump on anyone and that makes it OK.
 
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Sportsman

Active Member
Another fun nuclear fact: If the electricity you consume in a lifetime was generated by nuclear reactors the waste would fit into 12 oz pop can.
A 12 oz pop can that would decimate any river system....forever...at least our forever. Forget Hanford, which will surely leak into the Columbia...hopefully not my lifetime or yours. Maybe your a 3rd.gen. Richland PHD in nuclear fuckups, so put it in your own backyard if you like.
 
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longputt

Active Member
King County and western Washington generate VERY LITTLE power on their own. Of all the power generated in the Northwest western Washington generates 25% and most of that 75% in from fossil fuels.

To give you some indications of the HUGE amounts of energy King County consumes......7.5 percent of ALL BPA sales are with Seattle City Light. That is the output from 7.5 percent from 31 Federal dams....and that only supplies half of the Seattle's needs. That is NOT including other cities and towns in King County that use BPA power.

And it doesn't include the areas in King County served by Puget Sound Energy.

And that is the dirty, little secret about the Snake River Dams. They are NOT coming out, because the replacement power is too expensive too large to generate without significant public controversy.

The top five users of BPA power are primarily in western Washington and consume 35% of BPA electricity.

I not sure what percentage of the electricity used in western Washington is generated in western Washington, but my guess is probably around 10% or so, maybe less.

Perhaps somebody has those statistics. I don't have the time right now to track the data down, and it doesn't seem to be available.

PS...37% of PSE power does come from Colstrip with is scheduled for closure. As is the Centralia coal plant. Not sure of the status of the Boardman coal plant. BUT just replacing the electricity generated by coal in the Northwest will be interesting.

The good news is demand for electricity is slowly trending down, but not sure what the increase in electric cars will do to electrical demand.

The other thing that gets lost in all of this is the fact that I cannot find one W WA dam that has a fish ladder. The W WA hydro kills 100% of the fish! Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

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