Commercial gill netting on the Columbia

#61
So now the WA Commission has back tracked on its earlier commitment to permnantly remove gillnets from the Columbia River. And they want to continue the Columbia River endorsement fee ($8.75) that was needed to provide sportfishing monitoring on CR tributaries like the Methow where we haven't had a season for several years - why do they sell CR endorsements in years when there is no sport season to monitor? And they are seeking an increase in fishing license fees while providing ever decreasing sport fishing opportunities - so we can even further subsidize commercial salmon fishing! This thing's nuts!
Farmers are subsidized, not commercial fisherman on the west coast. Not trying to start an argument but that is a fact. Get rid of your dams, the blob, curb sea lions, cut down on turns and cormarants on east sand island. The trollers off the mouth all the way to Alaska intercepting those kings. You see the problem? Gillnetters have been fishing the Columbia way before thousands of sport fisherman have. Same number of permits but less fishing. This is way bigger then a few gillnetters and nothing will be solved pointing your fingers to one gear group. The picture is so much bigger
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#62
Farmers are subsidized, not commercial fisherman on the west coast. Not trying to start an argument but that is a fact. Get rid of your dams, the blob, curb sea lions, cut down on turns and cormarants on east sand island. The trollers off the mouth all the way to Alaska intercepting those kings. You see the problem? Gillnetters have been fishing the Columbia way before thousands of sport fisherman have. Same number of permits but less fishing. This is way bigger then a few gillnetters and nothing will be solved pointing your fingers to one gear group. The picture is so much bigger
Yes, I agree there are farm subsidies, more than are necessary, but they continue thanks to the efficacy of the corporate farm lobby. Your fact is wrong. Commercial salmon fishermen are likewise subsidized. First, they feed at the public trough, meaning that even naturally produced wild salmon are public property that become private through the artifice of franchise licensing. Second, the preponderance of salmon available for harvest in WA state are of hatchery origin, which are a direct subsidy paid for by electrical ratepayers, taxpayers, and recreational license fees. Commercial fishing license fees and landing taxes cover a tiny fraction, at best, of the costs of production, management, and regulation. Nice industry to be in, and not many like it, where someone else pays your freight.

Columbia River gillnetters are not the only problem. Neither I nor anyone else is claiming it is. But it occurs where CR salmon are separated from other mixed stocks and indiscriminately takes wild and hatchery origin salmon at the same time. There are few nor any harvestable wild salmon, and the hatchery ones are a direct subsidy to the commercial interests. It's a negative use of my tax and fishing license dollars to produce salmon for commercial harvest. I contrast this with my non-resident Montana fishing license as being a better value because all the money goes toward sport fishing and none to commercial fishing. I'm ready to support commercial gillnetting when the gillnetters contribute 100% of the costs of producing the fish that they catch, but not before.

Yes, the picture is bigger, but getting non-treaty gillnets off the Columbia River and other WA waters is an important first step.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#63
all I see here is one user group is trying to cut the other user group out of the catch quota so they can harvest those fish for themselves. the end result is still a dead fish !
That's partly true, about fighting over the remaining crumbs of fish, but you're overlooking the important distinction of mark selective fishing by the sport fleet, while the gillnet fleet harvests both wild and hatchery fish alike.
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#64
That's partly true, about fighting over the remaining crumbs of fish, but you're overlooking the important distinction of mark selective fishing by the sport fleet, while the gillnet fleet harvests both wild and hatchery fish alike.
maybe you should get current on the requirements of tangle nets & recover boxes required on Columbia river gillnet boats,it's a bit different these days
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
#65
maybe you should get current on the requirements of tangle nets & recover boxes required on Columbia river gillnet boats,it's a bit different these days
I thought we were talking about gill nets?
It would be hard to know much about it because they don't allow observers on board. Having them is all fine and dandy...are they being used?
 
#66
maybe you should get current on the requirements of tangle nets & recover boxes required on Columbia river gillnet boats,it's a bit different these days
First, the recovery boxes are only during the very limited Spring Chinook season - and the commercials bitch about using them and now refuse to allow on-board observers. Somehow the very dangerous northern water commercial fisheries can have observers but not here on the Columbia. (Did ya know the leader of the gillnet lobby was cited for having a non-operational recovery box? BTW, he's still fishing)

In late summer into Fall when the B-run steelhead and other sensitive stocks are in the river, it's just the regular Kill-em-all gillnet fishery.
 

Skip Enge

Uck Uck Uck, bitches
#67
My Dad often talked about a "solution" to the Indian fishery problem...put this in context of the late 60's okay?...at the time it made sense to Dad and we discussed it...It was not sensitive to the cultural or traditional or even the Bolt decision...
Dad thought the fish wheels should be used again for the Indian fisheries , employing tribal members to sort males to female ratios with a seasonal limit and release wild fish....The Indians become employees of the state commission. I don't recall what his ratio was but it made sense at the time...of course his ideas were slanted toward the equitable not the cultural. Dad liked to fish. we caught a lot of salmon and snake river steelhead (huge) out in the river back then.
 
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Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#68
maybe you should get current on the requirements of tangle nets & recover boxes required on Columbia river gillnet boats,it's a bit different these days
Maybe you're right because it's been over 30 years since I hung 5.5" multi-strand web slack on the cork line and long on the lead line tangle net for a spring Chinook tagging study and built and operated an oxygenated on-board recovery tank, but I strongly suspect that they still work the same way, provided of course, that you actually use them. Tangle nets and recovery boxes aside, there are statistics available on the incidental mortality rates of the various means of gillnet fishing on the Columbia. The best way to avoid incidental gillnet mortality of wild salmon and steelhead is to use selective fishing gear that can discriminate between the wild and hatchery fish, i.e., fish traps.
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#69
Maybe you're right because it's been over 30 years since I hung 5.5" multi-strand web slack on the cork line and long on the lead line tangle net for a spring Chinook tagging study and built and operated an oxygenated on-board recovery tank, but I strongly suspect that they still work the same way, provided of course, that you actually use them. Tangle nets and recovery boxes aside, there are statistics available on the incidental mortality rates of the various means of gillnet fishing on the Columbia. The best way to avoid incidental gillnet mortality of wild salmon and steelhead is to use selective fishing gear that can discriminate between the wild and hatchery fish, i.e., fish traps.
The best way to avoid any mortality is to stop all types of fishing, but that’s never been a popular method because of the political backlash.
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#70
I thought we were talking about gill nets?
It would be hard to know much about it because they don't allow observers on board. Having them is all fine and dandy...are they being used?
They are suppose to be used by gillnetters during this spring king seasons, now are they used, thats an enforcement issue kinda like Barbless hooks .
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#71
First, the recovery boxes are only during the very limited Spring Chinook season - and the commercials bitch about using them and now refuse to allow on-board observers. Somehow the very dangerous northern water commercial fisheries can have observers but not here on the Columbia. (Did ya know the leader of the gillnet lobby was cited for having a non-operational recovery box? BTW, he's still fishing)

In late summer into Fall when the B-run steelhead and other sensitive stocks are in the river, it's just the regular Kill-em-all gillnet fishery.
All these enforcement issues could be eliminated by closeing the river to all fishing both commercial & sport fishing. The River could possibly recouver if left alone
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#72
All these enforcement issues could be eliminated by closeing the river to all fishing both commercial & sport fishing. The River could possibly recouver if left alone
Only if fishing is the factor limiting recovery. It isn't. It's a factor, just not the biggest one. The best reason for banning NI gillnetting is because gillnetters don't pay their way, not even close, it is subsidized by the rest of us. It's a better economic and social use of harvestable salmon to allocate them to recreational fishing, after conservation needs are met. Any residual harvestable hatchery fish could be taken in existing and retrofitted fish traps.
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#73
Only if fishing is the factor limiting recovery. It isn't. It's a factor, just not the biggest one. The best reason for banning NI gillnetting is because gillnetters don't pay their way, not even close, it is subsidized by the rest of us. It's a better economic and social use of harvestable salmon to allocate them to recreational fishing, after conservation needs are met. Any residual harvestable hatchery fish could be taken in existing and retrofitted fish traps.
Where will the restaurants & job producing fish processors get the fish the non fishing folks want to eat? Talk about subsidy’s we all pay , schools ( I have no kids) , SS which I may never get, like you said life ain’t fair.