NFR 2019 Mariners

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
...and their manager, GM, and ownership suck.
How would you know? They have no talent. No talent means you can only aquire talent with $. Money can only get you free agents, who tend to be old (see Cano). Managers can't manage bad baseball players into good baseball players.

The ownership may suck, but mostly because they have not found a way to get better scouts and player development personnel. I can't think of a position player that they have developed as good as the 10th best that the Red Sox have developed in the last 10 years.

I know you hate Dipoto but he is not responsible for their lack of talent. In 2 or 3 years you can blame him if they have not fixed their player development problem. He has been forced to try am pull rabbits out of hats with trades. He has nothing else to work with.

The Mariners are not a minor league team for the rest of the league. Minor league teams develop major league talent. The mariners don't develop major league talent. When they did (Griffey, Rodriguez, Langston, Martinez etc.) they were good. It's that simple.

Go Sox,
cds
 

Bruce Baker

Active Member
Have you heard what the got in exchange for Edwin Encarnacion? I haven't.

You're not expecting them to win this year are you? They've been up front about that. I'm kinda glad their bullpen sucks. (And they do suck. Epicly.) Young guys contribute, put up some runs. Starter maybe gives a good effort. Then three guys you never head of give up 7 runs in the 7th and 8th. Good game. Nice loss. Move down in the standings, up in the draft.

They were going to lose 90 games with EE. They'll lose at least that without him. Shed a little salary and hopefully get something in return. Again, I'm almost glad. It's about time. I'm tired of 80-win teams every year. Tear it down and put it back together. Might work, might not, but what we had wasn't working.

In the meantime, you can watch Mark Chapman play third base. Best hot-corner fielder since Brooks Robinson. He's playing against the M's right now. Can't see him anywhere else this weekend.
I think they got a pitcher, Juan Then, who the Mariners had drafted and dealt to the Yankees in 2018 (before season started).
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
How would you know? They have no talent. No talent means you can only aquire talent with $. Money can only get you free agents, who tend to be old (see Cano). Managers can't manage bad baseball players into good baseball players.

The ownership may suck, but mostly because they have not found a way to get better scouts and player development personnel. I can't think of a position player that they have developed as good as the 10th best that the Red Sox have developed in the last 10 years.

I know you hate Dipoto but he is not responsible for their lack of talent. In 2 or 3 years you can blame him if they have not fixed their player development problem. He has been forced to try am pull rabbits out of hats with trades. He has nothing else to work with.

The Mariners are not a minor league team for the rest of the league. Minor league teams develop major league talent. The mariners don't develop major league talent. When they did (Griffey, Rodriguez, Langston, Martinez etc.) they were good. It's that simple.

Go Sox,
cds
Well, Dipoto was the gm when the angels made the playoffs, once. Even they dumped him after 5 years of mediocrity. Perhaps he just isn’t the baseball architect he claims to be. Servais was a scout for the rangers (another team with no talent) and he never managed before Dipoto hired him, it shows. Perhaps you are correct that they haven’t had enough time but I don’t see these two as the ones to get it done. They haven’t done anything in the past. The owners are in it to make money. They are business men not baseball fans.

By the way Cano had a .296 average during his tenure as a Mariner. Not terrible.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
MLB should boot the Mariners out of the majors on the grounds that if you want to play with the big boys you got to play like a big boy. Maybe if the Mariners played AAA for a decade or two they would get their shit together.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
MLB should boot the Mariners out of the majors on the grounds that if you want to play with the big boys you got to play like a big boy. Maybe if the Mariners played AAA for a decade or two they would get their shit together.
Yes. Relegation. European soccer style. I love this idea. I think there are a lot of things in soccer that don't make sense. Relegation does make sense.

@KerryS is certainly correct that the ownership is poor. Relegation would make the ownership pay attention and force them to deal with the reasons that they have been bad for so long. After all they have not improved in their player development in 20 years. The threat of relegation would force them to deal with it or lose lots of money.

Go Sox,
cds
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
The Mariners are bad enough that I'm embarrassed to use the sports section of the newspaper to line the bird cage. If I had a bird cage, that is.
 

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
I am a fan of relegation as the cost of mediocrity in sport. In European (and perhaps elsewhere) soccer (aka football, a game where the ball is advanced primarily by hitting the ball with a foot....), at the end of the season teams at the bottom of the league standings are relegated (switched) to the league below. (And the top teams (often 2 - 3) in the league below are promoted to the league above to keep the numbers correct.)

Relegation/Promotion has several ramifications. Because of the TV money, relegation causes a big hit to a team's bottom line and promotion is a big bonus (but the players expect to be paid more too). And it creates huge interest at the end of the season as the worst teams fight to avoid relegation - kind of like watching a dumpster fire. So, at the end of the season there is interest at both the top and bottom of the table. Who wold pay good money to watch Seattle play Baltimore in September (or even today) under the current setup? Historically, even some of current top teams have been relegated (and promoted); for example, Manchester City, back to back champions of the Premiere League in England, have been relegated 10 times in a little over 100 years. If your management sucks and makes poor decisions, you go down.

What would this mean? In baseball, some of those Triple A cities, like Portland or Topeka or Sacramento, could have major league baseball. And current major league cities, like Seattle or Detroit or Baltimore, would be playing Triple A baseball next year. Of course, you could make the argument that all three teams are currently playing Triple A baseball this year, but the fans are paying MLB prices. The Mariners and the rest are essentially "tanking" to improve their draft status. IMO, that is a risky strategies for the Mariners who have demonstrated NO ability to nourish draft picks to the major leagues.

Steve
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
https://www.britannica.com/story/why-do-some-people-call-football-soccer

It's perfectly appropriate to call the game soccer. Shoot the Aussies do, so I will follow suit.

The problem with relegation in baseball is that the minor league teams are owned by major league clubs. So you can't really promote another teams farm club without hurting the parent club.

I do think that MLB could do a better job of creating a disincentive to tanking. The NBA has tried with the draft lottery. I think that MLB could use financial disincentives like reducing the profit sharing for clubs with payrolls below a certain number etc. The NBA has long had a salary floor in their CBA.

Maybe MLB could try and make AAA teams that are independent to draw from?

Why is it that teams with Theo Epstein as GM do not need to tank to restock their farm systems? Teams like Seattle and Baltimore can't do it even with plenty of cash and the ability to tank.

Go Sox,
csd
 

Jamie Wilson

Active Member
Treat it like the NFL
Salary caps
Unfortunately teams like the Yankees and RedSox won’t go for it because they make too much money in their respective markets.
Then monetarily incentivize the post season for players and owners
With big $$$
That could work
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
Runners on second and third, one out, ground ball runner going on contact, a close play at the plate and every Mariners’ fan watching the game is yelling he missed the tag, he missed the tag. No challenge from Servais. The replay clearly showed the runner was safe. Also on the same play the runner on second didn’t advance to third on the throw home. A run lost and possibly two. Servais did challenge a close play at second later in the game that had no bearing on the final outcome. The Mariners went on to lose by one run in extra innings.

This is why they suck. Crappy managing and sloppy play.
 

golfman44

6x Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year (GOTY)
Your M's have 1 problem. They don't draft and develop any good players. End of story.

Go Sox,
cds
Agreed.

Ackley, Hultzen, and Zunino were widely regarded as safe picks but were all terrible...but it's still hilarious to me that we finished win win win to drop to the #2 pick in 09 to select the prize of Mr Dustin Ackley instead of Strasburg.

On the other hand baseball drafts and prospects are such a crap shoot, nobody knows shit. Trout went in the 20s that same year....then you have guys like Mark Appel who could have been the #1 pick four times and when he eventually was forced to go pro, he was the #1 pick, and yet never even pitched in the bigs. Baseball scouts might just be the biggest fraudsters out there.
 
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Paul_

Active Member
Not that I like seeing the M’s be on the losing side of a no hitter, but last night was pretty cool.
The Angels throwing a no hitter on the night they were honoring Skaggs was all right in my book.
 

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