When do you think “That ain’t fly fishing!” Or do you ?

#91
But when you're out fishing I bet you have an inkling of whether you're fly fishing or not.... therefore there is always a definition even if it is different between each angler.

Most can agree that we shouldn't look down on other ethical anglers using all types of gear, but the kumbaya crap whenever definitions come up is ridiculous.

Defining something isn't inherently bad. Disagreement and discussion can be a good thing. The OP thinks heavy sinking lines cross the threshold into non-flyfishing. Someone else mentioned synthetic flash on flies crossing the line. I'm sure we both disagree, but maybe we wonder whether heavy weight on the flies pushes it past that threshold for ourselves and we're biased because of where and what we fish for. A trout guy is going to have different ideas than a steelheader, and a salmon beach fisherman might even have different ideas than the offshore guy.

Defining fly fishing on a fly fishing forum seems sort of what one should be doing, especially in a thread about definitions. Shitting on someone's trip report is the wrong place but this seems perfectly fine to me.

Of course definitions aren't inherently bad. And sure, when I am fishing I tend to have a definition for what I'm doing. For the most part if I'm using a gear rod, I'm gear fishing. And if Im using a fly rod I'm fly fishing. With exceptions. If I'm bucktailing I would tell someone I caught fish bucktailing. Not fly fishing. And if I use a fly rod on a downrigger I would also make that distinction.

Ultimately though I simply don't care. Others do, and thats fine. But that doesnt obligate me to get into an in depth, nit picky discussion about it. I truly don't care.

When it comes to music I've always been a pretty big metal head. In my younger days I used to frequent some metal chatrooms where we would all bicker back and forth about whether this band or that band was "metal". After way too much time and effort engaging in that banter I just gave up. I don't care if you think Disturbed is metal. Doesn't impact me and my life in the least. And I don't care if someone thinks fishing for lings with depth charger lines is fly fishing or not. It simply doesn't concern me.

Sure definitions are important in society for a variety of reasons, but disagreement about various definitions doesn't make my list of things I find interesting or important. And the reasons those definitions are important are generally already squared away. For example... If I walk into a sporting goods store and tell the clerk I would like to buy a fly rod, there is a good chance they will know what I'm looking for based on a pretty standard social definition. And if I want to fish on fly fishing only waters, the state has given a pretty clear definition of what that is. Beyond that any discussion about the inner nuances of different fishing techniques, and what definition they fall under, simply doesn't interest me.

If someone wants to fish beads under an indicator from a moving boat and call it fly fishing, I don't care. Doesn't concern me or somehow diminish my own experience. Just like if someone wants to fish Ace High flies behind a flasher on a downrigger and call it fly fishing it doesn't impact me.

I simply have enough to worry about in my day-to-day life to spend time worrying about it. And since I also don't find such conversations interesting or enjoyable, it's just not something I care to put much effort into. That doesn't mean definitions are bad, or that I don't have any of my own, it just means I don't care. A thread like this is definitely the right place for such discussions, no doubt, but since I find such discussions a bit silly thats basically what my response will be.

But by all means have the conversation if it interests you. To many trolling wooly buggers on a lake with a fly rod is fly fishing. To you trolling flies behind a boat on the ocean is not. Ultimately neither one seems fly fishing by my own thoughts, I just don't care enough to argue the point.

I just like to fish.
 

Tracker

Active Member
#93
I'll leave it to the legal beagles to determine what the definition is as it relates to the law. Outside of that, I personally don't care.
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#95
If it’s going to make me feel superior, I generally lay into some innocent newcomer to fishing about how his methods suck in comparison to my “aged” methods.

Oh wait..
 
#96
Ha- too true, I think if you put the words “fly fishing” along any type of gear, rods, reels, clothes, etc. the cost automatically goes exponentially higher.
True for some, like any other sport. Skiing, golf or even cars...but just because things cost more won't make you a better fly fisher. Decked out Simms clown vs wet wading in shorts on a small crick in the summer.....fish don't care! My .02
 

bennysbuddy

the sultan of swing
#97
Of course definitions aren't inherently bad. And sure, when I am fishing I tend to have a definition for what I'm doing. For the most part if I'm using a gear rod, I'm gear fishing. And if Im using a fly rod I'm fly fishing. With exceptions. If I'm bucktailing I would tell someone I caught fish bucktailing. Not fly fishing. And if I use a fly rod on a downrigger I would also make that distinction.

Ultimately though I simply don't care. Others do, and thats fine. But that doesnt obligate me to get into an in depth, nit picky discussion about it. I truly don't care.

When it comes to music I've always been a pretty big metal head. In my younger days I used to frequent some metal chatrooms where we would all bicker back and forth about whether this band or that band was "metal". After way too much time and effort engaging in that banter I just gave up. I don't care if you think Disturbed is metal. Doesn't impact me and my life in the least. And I don't care if someone thinks fishing for lings with depth charger lines is fly fishing or not. It simply doesn't concern me.

Sure definitions are important in society for a variety of reasons, but disagreement about various definitions doesn't make my list of things I find interesting or important. And the reasons those definitions are important are generally already squared away. For example... If I walk into a sporting goods store and tell the clerk I would like to buy a fly rod, there is a good chance they will know what I'm looking for based on a pretty standard social definition. And if I want to fish on fly fishing only waters, the state has given a pretty clear definition of what that is. Beyond that any discussion about the inner nuances of different fishing techniques, and what definition they fall under, simply doesn't interest me.

If someone wants to fish beads under an indicator from a moving boat and call it fly fishing, I don't care. Doesn't concern me or somehow diminish my own experience. Just like if someone wants to fish Ace High flies behind a flasher on a downrigger and call it fly fishing it doesn't impact me.

I simply have enough to worry about in my day-to-day life to spend time worrying about it. And since I also don't find such conversations interesting or enjoyable, it's just not something I care to put much effort into. That doesn't mean definitions are bad, or that I don't have any of my own, it just means I don't care. A thread like this is definitely the right place for such discussions, no doubt, but since I find such discussions a bit silly thats basically what my response will be.

But by all means have the conversation if it interests you. To many trolling wooly buggers on a lake with a fly rod is fly fishing. To you trolling flies behind a boat on the ocean is not. Ultimately neither one seems fly fishing by my own thoughts, I just don't care enough to argue the point.

I fish.
It’s time for somebody to bring back bucktailing for cohos on Puget sound
 

wetswinger

Active Member
#99
When I moved back to Utah from Montana (ya can't eat the scenery) in the 80's, I thought I was some hot shit dryfly dude. My brother and I would head-up to these little mountain streams and he'd bounce pheasant tails and hares ears off the bottom with a indicator and knock the shit out of them. I was to cool to lower myself to such heathen behavior because that aint flyfishing. Problem was is I got very few compared to him. Move forward a couple years and I'm the one bouncing nymphs! Seems success breeds a change in philosophy....
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
I love these threads, unless the poster is just trolling. What I like about the subject is that someone is thinking, and that's a good thing, regardless of the conclusion.

Surely however, the learned among you know that fly fishing consists of a fly rod made of split bamboo, Tonkin cane, not Calcutta; a fly reel made in England, a tapered fly line of braided silk; gut leaders, and flies tied only with natural materials; whereupon the serious debate entails verbal pugilism regarding whether genetically selected and raised hackles are a natural material, or are they synthetic? Using any other gear or tackle makes you just a grubby bait-slinging goober. There, that should take care of all us lofty elitist pricks.

Some have posted that they don't care what the definition of fly fishing is as long as the angler fishes legally and ethically. Sadly though, we cannot rely upon the law to define fly fishing. Laws and fishing regulations can and do change. Fly fishing only in WA once prohibited the use of any weight on a fly, but that was changed to allow the use of weighted flies in fly fishing only waters. So the law is a faulty arbiter of truth. And ethics are even less useful. Ethics are personal. There are plenty of dirtbags whose personal ethics include low-holing other anglers and even worse behavior, such as stealing your beer. If you leave it to ethics, you'll soon end up with the least common denominator every time. And who among us wants to socialize on the water with that knuckledragger?

For my interests fly fishing needs to be somewhat special. Otherwise, why call it fly fishing instead of just fishing. That difference, or special aspect, that makes it fly fishing is along the lines of Norman Mclean's description in "A River Runs Through It." It should include some art, grace, and finesse that is commonly missing when spin fishing and bait casting. Some may disagree, but I think there's considerably more artfulness, grace, and finesse in my casting with a fly rod in hand than a spinning rod. Although I have to admit I've known some really excellent fly fishers whose casting grace never amounted to a hilla' beans. Small beadheads on nymphs can be cast with what appears to be graceful motion and finesse, but somewhere in large conehead territory grace and finesse have generally left the scene. So are those still fly fishing? Hell no! See the rules in the second paragraph above.
 

Eyejuggler

High bank poacher
How many sturgeon have you caught on fly gear?...I always wondered if it would be possible to get one on a 14 weight.We have some monster fish around our neck.How do you get your big fly down on bottom?
I got one last year on 12wt and that fish was lost after it towed me into a bunch of other fishers.
This was at Jurassic Park, aka Swan Island on the Willamette.
This year I took a 14 wt Predator, 14+ Redington Grande, and an Airflo 700gr Predator line.
The fly is lead, rabbit, and porous foam for the scent.
Tie up to a boom in the dry docks and let her sink. Move it slowly, but primarily just watch for your line movement.
Funky but fun and those thing are massive, especially when they breach!
 
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I got one last year on 12wt and that fish was lost after it towed me into a bunch of other fishers.
This was at Jurassic Park, aka Swan Island on the Willamette.
I took a 14 wt Predator, 14+ Redington Grande, and an Airflo 700gr Predator line.
The fly is lead, rabbit, and porous foam for the scent.
Tie up to a boom in the drydocks and let her sink. Move it slowly, but primarily just watch for your line movement.
Funky but fun and those thing are masive, especially when they breach!

That video was so awesome. Being towed around by a huge sturgeon hooked on a fly rod= winning
 

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