The loss of a spot...

#16
Bummer Billy, I'll bet you really wanted to share that spot with Liam...all it takes is a few assclowns to ruin it for everybody! Most aren't there to even fish. Years ago when I rode dirt bikes, jerks would dump garbage like roofing, mattress's, broken concrete and other crap...I know they didn't have dirt bikes in their trucks with all that, it was just a spot where they couldn't be seen. Very sad.
 

Dan Page

Active Member
#17
As a side note, my Mom and Dad both thought it important to let people on to fish or hunt as it was a resource to be shared. There is less public land in the Midwest and outdoor opportunities are limited. Unfortunately they were forced to greatly restrict access.
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#19
I know why most land owners closed off their property to asses around the rivers and it was usually a result of someone trashing their place. Others, the ownership changed and the new owners wanted the fishing spots to themselves. Which is all I can figure happened when the guy posted his cliff... no one had been trashing the cliff.

So it goes. It's unfortunate but it is what it is.
Fixed!
 

Krusty

Active Member
#20
Sadly that happens more & more, @b_illymac and for the same reasons. I lost access to several prime spots over the years due to some of the sins you cited plus repeated illegal dumping. The land is controlled by the Feds, but even they grew tired of contending with the pigs who trashed the area. Over the years I sent names. addresses, plate numbers, & photos identifying the "dumpers" to the authorities, but they refused to act. Now the entire area is fenced well away from the water; my aging knees compromise my ability to haul or carry a floating device in there now. I reckon it's deemed easier (but certainly not more appropriate on public land) to keep everyone out than it is to prosecute the chronic offenders. Sad indeed.
Unless a LEO actually witnesses the dumping, the addresses and other identifying information on the trash are not admissible evidence for prosecution. There's insufficient chain of evidence custody. So, if a county prosecutor attempted to move forward they know that the charges would never be sustained...and precious resources better spent pursuing more serious crimes would be squandered.
 

shotgunner

Anywhere ~ Anytime
#21
Unless a LEO actually witnesses the dumping, the addresses and other identifying information on the trash are not admissible evidence for prosecution. There's insufficient chain of evidence custody. So, if a county prosecutor attempted to move forward they know that the charges would never be sustained...and precious resources better spent pursuing more serious crimes would be squandered.
This varies by State.

One of the unpleasant tasks yet to be accomplished (snow just now off for most part) is going to investigate disposal of approximately a dozen loaded garbage bags on our farm. Mysteriously arrived in a location less than 150 feet from a rental home. If any addressed material is in the mix that coincides with prior residents it's going to weigh in heavily by connecting some hefty dots. A good LEO officer knows his job, and in these cases sometimes able to get a confession with just a simple interview conducted.. most people know what they did was / is wrong and when called on it cave (Hard cases exempt)

Slobs are really a downer for me.. Sorry for your loss Billy.
 
#22
This varies by State.

One of the unpleasant tasks yet to be accomplished (snow just now off for most part) is going to investigate disposal of approximately a dozen loaded garbage bags on our farm. Mysteriously arrived in a location less than 150 feet from a rental home. If any addressed material is in the mix that coincides with prior residents it's going to weigh in heavily by connecting some hefty dots. A good LEO officer knows his job, and in these cases sometimes able to get a confession with just a simple interview conducted.. most people know what they did was / is wrong and when called on it cave (Hard cases exempt)

Slobs are really a downer for me.. Sorry for your loss Billy.
My personal favorite was a clogged pump line...6 dead adult dogs in the pond. I think the people who get mad a private landowners for blocking their land would be shocked if we shared all of our stories.
 

Jim Ficklin

Genuine Montana Fossil
#23
I think the people who get mad a private landowners for blocking their land would be shocked if we shared all of our stories.
I have no problem with private landowners protecting their land and I don't blame them a bit for restricting access.

In the case of the Federally-managed land that I referenced earlier, those folks all but ignored me when I tried to talk to them, and on several occasions.
 
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Jim Ficklin

Genuine Montana Fossil
#25
They are actually “teaching” their kids that you can bring it all and don’t have to take out. It perpetuates the cycle
I have suggested that folks police their mess before - on more than one occasion, I have heard "Why? It's garbage" in response. I've filled a lot of trash bags with other folks' "garbage" over the years.
 
#26
Long putt:

I would agree that it is not “new”, I just think it has gotten worse.

It amazes me when families camp, outside of campgrounds, bring all their stuff in and leave it. They are actually “teaching” their kids that you can bring it all and don’t have to take out. It perpetuates the cycle
I have suggested that folks police their mess before - on more than one occasion, I have heard "Why? It's garbage" in response. I've filled a lot of trash bags with other folks' "garbage" over the years.
I have a Labrador dog and she finds all kinds of garbage in campgrounds and fire pits!
 

zen leecher aka bill w

born to work, forced to fish
#27
I was maybe 23 or 24 when my friend dragged me out of the house hung over to go smallmouth fishing one early spring day. We drove down to a small gravel launch in a cut in cascade valley and were soon throwing crankbaits to a spot we now simply call the rock pile right offshore. It was March 1st.

When she hit that afternoon it was like a freight train and it took a lot to get her to the surface. She to this day is my biggest smallmouth at 6.1 pounds.

Over the years I would hit this spot for early morning or late evening topwater and during the spring smallmouth spawn. The spot does get hit by a lot of gear guys in fancy boats but I prefered just paddling my small Nucanoe along the shore and picking the docks and cattails apart with my fly rod. I almost always was rewarded.

The last few years I have noticed a spot next to the ramp. A parking spot that is almost entirely out of view due to brush and a few trees. Every time I fished late someone would be there. The amount of litter and trash became unreal. But I still enjoyed this spot 5 minutes from my current house and overall felt safe parking along the main road. I never had any problems.

And so yesterday with a few hours to spend on a nice afternoon I loaded up my son in hopes of hunting down a big prespawn smallmouth with my flyrod. As we rounded the corner in my old truck I saw a shiney new 6 foot tall fence.

The entire area is blocked off. The next door neighbor apparently owns the parking area and 2/3rds of the ramp and the small slice of public has an even bigger second fence connected now with 3 large stop sign size red dots? I assume to signal keep out. Liam and I stopped and got out to look it all over. He didn't really understand at 4. How could he?

I knocked on the neighbors door with Liam to see if maybe I could still slip my canoe in. A small elderly lady opened the door and explained why they shut down access. "Too many lovers late at night, McDonald packages left, rowdy parties, garbage and filth." Needless to say she recommended we go to the park to put in. I tried to explain why Liam and I wouldn't put in at the park (crowded and not where I would want to fish) but her mind was set. I dont blame her.

During the ride home Liam asked to fish a handful of other lakes but I explained that the drive was too long for the window of time we had.

Obviously this spot is still open to me if I want to motor around in the bigger boat. But it does sting a little to have an access point so close to home shut down. A spot I have known quite well and wanted to enjoy with my son yesterday...
I had a couple ponds down off of Silica Road and those are now posted.
 

JesseC

Active Member
#28
There are many aspects to this issue.
I grew up on a family farm in the Midwest that had about 1/4 mile of river frontage on a bigger river. We always let people fish with permission. They had to go through 3 to 4 gates that were used to contain livestock at different times of the year. As time went on the inevitable happened, livestock getting loose and having to gather them back up, litter accumulation etc. etc. So after restricting access to less and less people trespassing became a real problem with more vandalism, more littering, stealing firewood, etc.
To actually prosecute someone on the grounds of trespassing is very difficult and almost impossible. My sister lives there today and after much legal advice and many challenging experiences has posted the property but basically cannot stop trespassing. Trespassers trespass with little consequence.
The bottom line here is lack of self responsibility and respect for others, and the resource. Is part of human nature I guess.
I think you hit the nail on the head. There’s no enforcement. Even if the cop comes out and a land owner files charges, will someone ever even prosecute it.

Lastly, it’s the litigious culture. They don’t want to risk some fat ass slipping down a trail, having a heart attack, and then suing them. Ya know it’d happen.
 
#29
Sorry billy, that sucks. I lost a launch point last year that a timber company owned but people kept camping at with fires during fire season.

We need a BnB type company to be proactive and start throwing up gates with fees for keys. Better than it just being shit off.
 

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