In the Heart of the Rockies

#32
Global issues require global solutions. What we do means nothing as long as India and China are cranking out more emissions, faster than we can lower ours.
We are still #2 in annual emissions. Cutting ours will make a difference - a big one. Other countries should cut theirs too, but we certainly have the ability to do the right thing first.
 
#34
We are still #2 in annual emissions. Cutting ours will make a difference - a big one. Other countries should cut theirs too, but we certainly have the ability to do the right thing first.
We've been cutting ours, what change has the environment seen? This is going back to the US backing out of the international emissions deal a year or two ago. We've been cutting emissions but it did nothing to reduce emissions from countries like India and China. So if they keep increasing to the point where China emits more than the UK and US combined what good is it to saddle american citizens in increasingly burdensome regulations? I'm all for a meaningful change, but that's going to require a global effort. One nation isn't going to make a dent of any kind by itself.
 
#35
We've been cutting ours, what change has the environment seen? This is going back to the US backing out of the international emissions deal a year or two ago. We've been cutting emissions but it did nothing to reduce emissions from countries like India and China. So if they keep increasing to the point where China emits more than the UK and US combined what good is it to saddle american citizens in increasingly burdensome regulations? I'm all for a meaningful change, but that's going to require a global effort. One nation isn't going to make a dent of any kind by itself.
Our emissions were higher in 2018 than 2017. I didn't say anything about regulations, but we do need to cut emissions somehow. I'm totally open to ideas for how that happens. Would you agree that we can do our part and lead the way on this?
 
#37
Our emissions were higher in 2018 than 2017. I didn't say anything about regulations, but we do need to cut emissions somehow. I'm totally open to ideas for how that happens. Would you agree that we can do our part and lead the way on this?
You're saying nothing about regulations but want us to contact congress? You expect America to lead when the top polluter is an economic rival and has no incentive to stop? We aren't doing our part as much of the country is moving from coal to natural gas (lower emissions) to generate power?

You've pointed to the problem with no solution, no plan, just pointing the finger at the problem. No I don't agree to doing our part when our part is unknown. The quickest thing would be launch some nukes and kill a few billion people, but I've got some moral qualms about that. The technology and political landscape doesn't exist for the US to make this massive unknown change that is so easy to say we need to do.

So it's back to global problems need global solutions. America doesn't dictate squat to other nuclear powers.
 
#38
You're saying nothing about regulations but want us to contact congress? You expect America to lead when the top polluter is an economic rival and has no incentive to stop? We aren't doing our part as much of the country is moving from coal to natural gas (lower emissions) to generate power?

You've pointed to the problem with no solution, no plan, just pointing the finger at the problem. No I don't agree to doing our part when our part is unknown. The quickest thing would be launch some nukes and kill a few billion people, but I've got some moral qualms about that. The technology and political landscape doesn't exist for the US to make this massive unknown change that is so easy to say we need to do.

So it's back to global problems need global solutions. America doesn't dictate squat to other nuclear powers.
We need to cut emissions in half within 12 years to keep from experiencing the worst effects of climate change. We don't do that by whining about which country emits the most. On a per-person basis, we emit more than China. Furthermore, why do you think China emits so much? Possibly to produce the products that we buy?

Natural gas isn't good enough in the long run. We need to find ways to get to zero emissions. If you really have to have a specific policy that is super easy to understand, I'll give you one. Stop subsidizing fossil fuels. No coal mining on public land, etc. That's an easy place to start, and it doesn't require extra regulations. I don't know why I am required to have all of the solutions, but I did give you an idea.

Here's a resource with an abundance of information, compiled by hundreds of scientists who are all smarter than I am - complete with recommendations on adapting to climate change: https://www.globalchange.gov/nca4
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
#39
We need to cut emissions in half within 12 years to keep from experiencing the worst effects of climate change. We don't do that by whining about which country emits the most. On a per-person basis, we emit more than China. Furthermore, why do you think China emits so much? Possibly to produce the products that we buy?

Natural gas isn't good enough in the long run. We need to find ways to get to zero emissions. If you really have to have a specific policy that is super easy to understand, I'll give you one. Stop subsidizing fossil fuels. No coal mining on public land, etc. That's an easy place to start, and it doesn't require extra regulations. I don't know why I am required to have all of the solutions, but I did give you an idea.

Here's a resource with an abundance of information, compiled by hundreds of scientists who are all smarter than I am - complete with recommendations on adapting to climate change: https://www.globalchange.gov/nca4
Stop subsidizing fossil fuels?

Consequences

1. Price of gas rises substantially
2. Price of everything goes up.
3 economic growth stops
4 unemployment rises
5. People have less money to spend
6 recession
7 greater unemployment
8 bankruptcy increases
9 housing prices plummet
10 people default and become homeless
11. Depression
12 out of desperation to survive people cut trees and burn them
13. People kill lots of wildlife to feed families
14 CO2 increases from burning coal and wood.

Keeping the American economy going strong is the key to solving climate change.

On the other hand since you are so concerned about it you gave quit heating your home, driving your cars and have stopped buying stuff from China?.
 
#40
Stop subsidizing fossil fuels?

Consequences

1. Price of gas rises substantially
2. Price of everything goes up.
3 economic growth stops
4 unemployment rises
5. People have less money to spend
6 recession
7 greater unemployment
8 bankruptcy increases
9 housing prices plummet
10 people default and become homeless
11. Depression
12 out of desperation to survive people cut trees and burn them
13. People kill lots of wildlife to feed families
14 CO2 increases from burning coal and wood.

Keeping the American economy going strong is the key to solving climate change.

On the other hand since you are so concerned about it you gave quit heating your home, driving your cars and have stopped buying stuff from China?.
Fear mongering doesn’t solve anything. Worldwide, fossil fuel companies receive $1.3 trillion annually from subsidies. That’s about $10 million per minute. I’m pretty sure that we can change where subsidies go and update our energy to cleaner sources without destroying the economy.

Before we go down another ideological rabbit hole, I want to point out that I’m open to ideas that solve the problem. As long as we fix our pollution problem, I’m happy. Feel free to think about how to eliminate our CO2 emissions in a way that makes you happy. Gotta cut by half in 12 years. We’ve already waited too long for an easy solution.
 
#42
Some really beautiful scenery in there, and wild places are cool. I would like to see some of those beautiful wild places one day. If for no other reason that makes this an important issue. I wish it wasn’t political. Thanks for sharing @Matt Paluch !
 
#43
Excuse me, but exactly what fossil fuels are subsidized in the US?

I do know that the Fed and states tax the crap out of it, based on review of electric bills and vehicle fuel data.

Ethanol is subsidized, makes a small percentage tho.

What else?
 
#44
We started down the slippery slope long ago by pursuing the cheaper, foreign made goods, wear your nikes then dispose, etc. How much chinese made stuff do we have in our houses now, or in the gear bag?

We all contribute daily as we send our $$ oversea to effectively subsidize their increased pollution on this planet. So enjoy that chinese stuff.......
 
#45

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