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Disgusted

5K views 62 replies 30 participants last post by  GeorgeV 
#1 ·
Just needed to vent some frustration and disgust here, as many are like minded. My family is tired of my diatribes concerning the Pebble Mine project.

This thing is happening. There will be a 600 foot deep pit and permanent slurry waters (behind the largest earthen damn ever constructed) located smack in the headwaters of the Nushagak. This is in a fluid watershed that supports the last grreat salmon runs of the world. We have spent billions trying to bring back runs here and all we need to do is leave them alone there. This wil impact that watershed at some point. I am seriously thinking of a packraft trip into this area to capture on video what we are destroying.

I would like to know how much the involed people are being paid down the road. Pruitt, Leopold, Trump, Brune, etc are lining their pockets at the expense of our wild lands future. For Gods sake, the Alaskan Commissioner for the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) was emploed by the Pebble consortium.

The EIC prepared by the Army Corp of engineers is a joke, and no one cares. The last bit of protection that should have long ago been signed into law was stripped a few days ago.

When did the protection of our lands become Republican and Democrat? Does everthing have to be politicised? We need natural resources and i have nothing against mining, logging, etc in the right areas; NOT in Bristol Bay. Not when the reprecussions are forever. The toxic by waste NEVER goes away. Insane. Im done.
 
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#3 ·
Just needed to vent some frustration and disgust here, as many are like minded. My family is tired of my diatribes concerning the Pebble Mine project.

This thing is happening. There will be a 600 foot deep pit and permanent slurry waters (behind the largest earthen damn ever constructed) located smack in the headwaters of the Nushagak. This is in a fluid watershed that supports the last grreat salmon runs of the world. We have spent billions trying to bring back runs here and all we need to do is leave them alone there. This wil impact that watershed at some point. I am seriously thinking of a packraft trip into this area to capture on video what we are destroying.

I would like to know how much the involed people are being paid down the road. Pruitt, Leopold, Trump, Brune, etc are lining their pockets at the expense of our wild lands future. For Gods sake, the Alaskan Commissioner for the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) was emploed by the Pebble consortium.

The EIC prepared by the Army Corp of engineers is a joke, and no one cares. The last bit of protection that should have long ago been signed into law was stripped a few days ago.

When did the protection of our lands become Republican and Democrat? Does everthing have to be politicised? We need natural resources and i have nothing against mining, logging, etc in the right areas; NOT in Bristol Bay. Not when the reprecussions are forever. The toxic by waste NEVER goes away. Insane. Im done.
Yes, everything has to be politicized because the masses of humanity demand it! For every one of us who see preservation there are three or more who see development $$$$$$$! I would ask you this question, "Are there any right areas left to mine and/or log?" Better question would be, "What happens when humanity expands to the point that there are no areas left"?

We finally have a few politicians willing to TALK about climate change being a crisis but I have yet to hear any one of them talk about overpopulation! Point being, if our population were not out of control you would not have to post this issue.
 
#45 ·
What was the carbon footprint of your extravagant trip?

How much carbon based fuel was used on your trip? ( plane, your car, fishing lodge)

Did you confront the gas and oil people at your fish lodge and tell them how evil they are?

You can stay local and catch salmon and have a much less negative impact on the environment

I think Europe has the right idea in flight shaming

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d38486-ac96-11e9-9411-a608f9d0c2d3_story.html
 
#6 ·
I don't believe this needs to be party aligned. Right now it clearly is. I don't want to change the conversation, but, I don't like anything political right now. Quite frankly I have reached an exhaustion point with how the world aligns now. My category doesn't exist on the national level anymore. I think I am not un typical for my age group and coming from the west coast. I am also a Marine. My leanings cross between Republican and Democrat. I am selfish. I just want them to leave Bristol Bay alone and wild as possible, so it is there for future generations.
 
#7 · (Edited)
BullerRiver1 - that is nutty. I'll be in Dillingham next week. I am too emotional about this stuff. I hope I don't see those people out and about. They all live in the short term and give a F*** less if an area gets destroyed. They'll just go somewhere else.

Habitat can be restored. If the copper and gold could be removed, the land put back, then the wetlands would do what they always do, I wouldn't be so upset. There would be an impact, but at least it would eventually recover. The fact that the toxic tailings are forever and the risk of that has been assessed as zero by the Corp of Engineers just tells you where this is headed.
 
#9 ·
You that believe that conservation of public lands should not be political are naive. When the federal government controls the land and special interest lobbies pay big money to your representatives, their going to get what they want. Democrats seem to be less aggressive towards devlopment of the resources but they're no angels. Money rules the world. Until our lame government changes the laws to deflect the influence of special interest, it will be a challenge to protect any public lands that holds resources that some for profit company lust for.
 
#56 ·
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately our government can do nothing to overturn Citizens United, which was probably the biggest nexus to the influence of special interests. There are some campaign finance laws they can change which will be a step in the right direction, unfortunately, with a GOP president, the SCOTUS will align this way for some time to come....
 
#10 ·
And yet this rant's very life existence depends on the minerals mined.
Not to mention, the oil drilled, water dammed, forests cut, etc. etc.

But, as long as people continue to breed and need/want things...these activities will continue.

BTW...I agree that this watershed should be left alone.
 
#14 ·
Just some thoughts from a conservation minded conservative.
You are not a conservation-minded conservative. Let's get that straight right away. No conservation-minded person would for a second consider that this project is a good idea, but you do. There are times, and places, for development. This is, beyond argument, not that place.
 
#13 ·
GaryK - I hear you. As long as investors stay away there is hope - but for some reason the government is making this much more attractive to investors. Just feels like it is a wave rolling the wrong direction now. On an issue everyone thought was dead. Super depressing. At least this mobilizes those of us who live busy lives and find it hard to dedicate time to issues that are important. I'll be writing more letters and doing what I can. Groups that are more organized will I am sure start bringing lawsuites. Etc etc.. I just want the Bristol Bay watershed left alone. Won't comment anymore on the political side as no one can talk intelligently anymore - it will become an off topic rant of different proportions. Nothing is more polarizing than sticking a political name or slogan on a post now.
 
#23 ·
Jamie, don't be an apologist for those who would strip mine the entire land. Those people always start out by saying, "but you have to compromise, and for the sake of development, allow us half of the land." Then when that's destroyed, they'll come back and say, "You have to compromise and allow us half of what's left." That's a sucker's play. Look at what's left of our forests. Look at the long-term damage it's caused to our rivers caused by overharvesting. That's what the end game is. This "development" doesn't help you or me, it helps those who already have all the money in the world get more.

Time to say "Enough, no more."
 
#25 ·
Lot's of nutty stuff going on. These organizations should be impartial and should have an ethos and written philosophy that does not change dramatically, and is aligned with what they were created for. BLM should manage lands. EPA should make sure stupid things are not done. Department of the Interior should have the publics interest at heart. These standards, philosophies and working documents should not change dramatically from administration to administration. It makes sense to have the certain offices attached to the Executive branch - others not so much. How to fix? Attach to the Judicial branch instead?? Who knows.
 
#27 ·
People that are serious about 'overpopulation'
can take things into their own hands to 'make a difference', and actually lessen the problem.

Step up or shut up.....

'Overpopulation' is a joke, hard to take anyone seriously who points the finger at that as a 'big problem'.

:(
 
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#34 · (Edited)
@dekartes I feel your pain.

We could just band together and hire the best environmental protection attorneys to fight these types of boondoggles in court....

NRDC.org (Natural Resources Defense Counsel) has successfully beat our own government in court dozens of times over the past 49 years to uphold the environmental protection laws that we already have in place.

It shouldn't be this way, but sometimes we have to fight in court and win these battles.

Look at NRDC's record.... then hire them to work on your behalf by sending them the needed cash to get the job done.

It's worked lots of times.
 
#36 ·
For the "overpopulation" types, population growth rates have leveled off, or even declined with rising standards of living. Some countries populations are actually decreasing.

That being said, I think having a tax credit for having no kids isn't a bad idea.

Protection of our lands became a democratic party point when republicans stopped wanting to protect the lands. A republican politician who says "lets not mine that gold" or "lets not cut those trees over there" is not going to win any primary.
 
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