Experience with Fly Guides?!

bk paige

Wishin I was on the Sauk
Hmmm, research for an application. How many other websites are you doing research on? Not a bad idea, but I hope you aren’t thinking of making money on your app. Fly fishing isn’t a main stream endeavor like travel and the number of guides doesn’t even come close to the number of rental properties on Airbnb.

Except on the Hoh come March!
 

Mark Moore

Just a Member
Hey Kerry, thanks for your feedback. I am not interested in making money so much as I am interested in solving the lack of transparency and confidence in the guide service purchasing process. The process seems to be controlled by flyfishing shops who serve as gatekeepers of the industry. I sincerely believe that the network inefficiencies is reducing market demand. So, if there is a way to solve this problem thereby getting more people on the water and appreciating/becoming stewards of the natural world, than that would be a huge success. Definitely will check out other websites, any come to mind?
Those “gatekeepers” have a deeply vested interest in their guides providing high quality experiences for their clients. As far as network inefficiencies reducing demand, those same gatekeepers have their livelihoods tied up in seeing as many bookings as possible so I’m not sure your single bad experience is representative enough to justify your assumption.

As far as your desire to “get as many people on the water as possible”, I don’t think you’re going to get a lot of support for that goal amongst this crowd...
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
If only there was an app to help me find a guide. It's not like I could interact via phone with a fly shop in the area to find one. That would involve talking to a human.

If only there were more people on the water for conservation, safety, and comfort. If only.


Said no fly angler ever


If only there was a middleman with an app to get me trips. If only there was a middleman to profit off my labor and cut into my bottom line.


Said no decent guide ever
 

Thrasybulus

The New Fly Fisherman
Many times. Never needed a guide, 'though. Sorry, I must be the exception to the rule... nah, I'm just cheap.
So you poled the flats boat yourself, spotted the tarpon, and popped down to make a quick cast?

Or are we only talking about tossing a dry fly to trout across state lines? I like to visit cool places and fly fish for new species. Meeting new people and learning from a good guide makes you a better angler. In some situations a hiring a guide is not optional. Home waters are great, but so is expanding your horizons and adding a new challenge.
 
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flybill

Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!
Many times. Never needed a guide, 'though. Sorry, I must be the exception to the rule... nah, I'm just cheap.
I've fished with plenty of guides, but only paid for a few trips. I always bring stuff along when a guide friend takes me out and help with gas, lunch or whatever they want! Perks of working with the guides and referring people to them!
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
So you poled the flats boat yourself, spotted the tarpon, and popped down to make a quick cast?

Or are we only talking about tossing a dry fly to trout across state lines? I like to visit cool places and fly fish for new species. Meeting new people and learning from a good guide makes you a better angler. In some situations a hiring a guide is not optional. Home waters are great, but so is expanding your horizons and adding a new challenge.
I have used guides, especially when travelling. The majority of my experiences were bad. I suspect that I have not chosen the ones that I have used correctly. From NY to Mexico, I've had mostly annoying experiences. I've had bad ones when fishing around guides too. I've never had a really super great positive guide experience ever.

The best guide that I ever had was in Baja. He was the cheapest and he spoke little English. He was nice to my kid. The fishing was simple and we had fun. It was more about the place and boat than anything. If I could have rented the boat only, I would have paid 2X as much and been happier.

You are correct that sometimes you have to get a guide. Examples are albacore fishing or travelling etc. I never feel super happy about any particular fish if a guide was involved though. It takes most of the fun out of the game for me. Others don't mind at all and I don't judge them for having fun. I personally prefer fishing without bobber or guides. Both those things strip the enjoyment of accomplishment to me. I also don't like being told what to do so maybe I'm just incompatible with guides.

On anyone's local stream, guides become a real issue as they bring people there who otherwise could not/ would not do it. They do me no good. I see no reason to defend or support them. They simply are profiting by privatizing a public resource and by getting in my way.

Go Sox,
cds
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
So you poled the flats boat yourself, spotted the tarpon, and popped down to make a quick cast?

Or are we only talking about tossing a dry fly to trout across state lines? I like to visit cool places and fly fish for new species. Meeting new people and learning from a good guide makes you a better angler. In some situations a hiring a guide is not optional. Home waters are great, but so is expanding your horizons and adding a new challenge.
I'd hire a guide for something like that. I wouldn't need an app though. I'd Google, research, and call shops to find a reputable guide with a decent boat and program. An app would be a way for bottom feeders of the guide world to get trips when word of mouth does them rightfully wrong and shops don't recommend them. Finding a guide isn't hard. They are multiplying seasonally and not tough to find. Many places you can't throw a cast without snagging one. They are like pinks in allot of areas.
 
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Justin Waters

Active Member
1.) StreamerEater... You made your first post on a super spicy forum looking for information to start a business.. Not really a good spot for it. I am sure you don't need that pointed out now.
2.) This might be the only ONLINE spot that hates technology. This is like complaining about STDs while banging Magic Johnson. Seems a little silly.
3.) The "Gatekeeper" fly shops are typically ran by folks who have invested their lives into caring that people have a good time fly fishing. The Gate Keepers you speak of teach more people about the joy's of fly fishing than just about any other source available. If your experience was bad... Perhaps look for a better gate.
4.) We get hit up about 4 times a week from app companies trying to do our bookings for us... We tell them all "Thanks... But no thanks." This is not a new idea, nor is it something any guides who actually have clients are going to pay to be a part of.
5.) Fortunately, most folks enjoy their time fishing with us and come back every year (if not multiple times a year) and I don't mind answering the phone when they call or writing back when they email. The number one issue most people tell us they have with guides is that they do not pick up the phone or respond to emails.
6.) We have helped families learn to fish together, kids catch their first fish, and countless conservation groups fund projects. However, I make ZERO claims that we do not effect the resource. Fishing is a blood sport. All guides do make a negative hit on the resource, which is why we ALWAYS make an effort to balance that with supporting conservation groups, doing garbage pick ups, teaching our clients about proper fish handling. We do the best we can.
7.) I think you would have a hard time finding a guide (someone likely more knowledgeable on the issue than a weekend fishermen) on the MO or on the Hoh that doesn't believe that there is a pressure issue. But if you are out on those rivers during peak season, complaining about user groups... You are part of the problem. There are solutions to these problems that have been successful in many areas... Montana limits user days on certain lakes. Each outfitter that holds a license to Hebgan Lake only allows so many user days. Idaho limits user days on certain rivers. The Henry's Fork for instance only allows a certain number of guides per day, per section of river. It never feels crowded out there, with the exception of the do it yourself crowd on the Ranch and the areas surrounding it.

Whenever the subject of guided fishing comes up you get the same stupid "us vs them" comments. Fact is, selfishly, I would rather have the water all to myself every day. I have the best job in the world. I get to go out and tell jokes, teach people about the water and area, check out some beautiful fish and get to know interesting and successful people damn near every day. I get to share the most fun way to enjoy the outdoors with over 500 people a year. That is freaking rad. Almost always we have the whole area to ourselves. Then every once in a while, I see another boat, or a beach guy standing in a spot... I think... "Man, I hope they are having a good time!" Because that is what normal, decent people do when they see people having fun. It's fishing, just be nice. Be stoked... Or Perhaps instead of hating on other users on the water. Maybe, book a guide and see if maybe the reason you are so full of anger is because you have been looking at it all wrong the whole time.

P.s. Claiming anglers do not come together for conservation efforts is insane. Check out SaveBristolBay.org and see the efforts to stop the pebble mine. or Captains For Clean Water with regards to the Florida Everglades. There has be a ton of angler supported successful conservation efforts. TU has made a profound effort in Tongas National Forest to protect against major logging efforts. There has been great success stories of anglers protecting the waters they are in love with. Again... Perhaps you are looking at things wrong.
 

Rock Creek Fan

Active Member
I have hired a number of guides over the past 40 years. @Steve Saville said it perfectly from my POV:

<snip> I use a guide to broaden my knowledge of an unknown place mostly but sometimes just to get out and fish a known location better.
Guides nowadays are a dime a dozen. Many (most?) should should not even be able to use that title. They may not even know how to safely row a boat down a river. I prefer older guides with more experience fishing and hopefully guiding. In almost all cases my experiences have been a lot better with them. They understand and work WITH their client and within their capabilities and not try to get them to fish their way e.g. chuck 'n duck or is it duck 'n chuck. Sometimes they can improve a client's technique - something I always appreciate...
 

Wyobee

Active Member
Fishing guides/guided trips are awesome, not that I can really afford to indulge in such a luxury often. Most of the people who can afford the guides are retired baby-boomers and older, don't hate because they worked their whole lives and now want to go fishing.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
1.) StreamerEater... You made your first post on a super spicy forum looking for information to start a business.. Not really a good spot for it. I am sure you don't need that pointed out now.
2.) This might be the only ONLINE spot that hates technology. This is like complaining about STDs while banging Magic Johnson. Seems a little silly.
3.) The "Gatekeeper" fly shops are typically ran by folks who have invested their lives into caring that people have a good time fly fishing. The Gate Keepers you speak of teach more people about the joy's of fly fishing than just about any other source available. If your experience was bad... Perhaps look for a better gate.
4.) We get hit up about 4 times a week from app companies trying to do our bookings for us... We tell them all "Thanks... But no thanks." This is not a new idea, nor is it something any guides who actually have clients are going to pay to be a part of.
5.) Fortunately, most folks enjoy their time fishing with us and come back every year (if not multiple times a year) and I don't mind answering the phone when they call or writing back when they email. The number one issue most people tell us they have with guides is that they do not pick up the phone or respond to emails.
6.) We have helped families learn to fish together, kids catch their first fish, and countless conservation groups fund projects. However, I make ZERO claims that we do not effect the resource. Fishing is a blood sport. All guides do make a negative hit on the resource, which is why we ALWAYS make an effort to balance that with supporting conservation groups, doing garbage pick ups, teaching our clients about proper fish handling. We do the best we can.
7.) I think you would have a hard time finding a guide (someone likely more knowledgeable on the issue than a weekend fishermen) on the MO or on the Hoh that doesn't believe that there is a pressure issue. But if you are out on those rivers during peak season, complaining about user groups... You are part of the problem. There are solutions to these problems that have been successful in many areas... Montana limits user days on certain lakes. Each outfitter that holds a license to Hebgan Lake only allows so many user days. Idaho limits user days on certain rivers. The Henry's Fork for instance only allows a certain number of guides per day, per section of river. It never feels crowded out there, with the exception of the do it yourself crowd on the Ranch and the areas surrounding it.

Whenever the subject of guided fishing comes up you get the same stupid "us vs them" comments. Fact is, selfishly, I would rather have the water all to myself every day. I have the best job in the world. I get to go out and tell jokes, teach people about the water and area, check out some beautiful fish and get to know interesting and successful people damn near every day. I get to share the most fun way to enjoy the outdoors with over 500 people a year. That is freaking rad. Almost always we have the whole area to ourselves. Then every once in a while, I see another boat, or a beach guy standing in a spot... I think... "Man, I hope they are having a good time!" Because that is what normal, decent people do when they see people having fun. It's fishing, just be nice. Be stoked... Or Perhaps instead of hating on other users on the water. Maybe, book a guide and see if maybe the reason you are so full of anger is because you have been looking at it all wrong the whole time.

P.s. Claiming anglers do not come together for conservation efforts is insane. Check out SaveBristolBay.org and see the efforts to stop the pebble mine. or Captains For Clean Water with regards to the Florida Everglades. There has be a ton of angler supported successful conservation efforts. TU has made a profound effort in Tongas National Forest to protect against major logging efforts. There has been great success stories of anglers protecting the waters they are in love with. Again... Perhaps you are looking at things wrong.

This guy fvucks.


The above is a compliment. Fff.fff taught me this hip vernacular. Allot of good insight in the quoted post.
 
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Rock Creek Fan

Active Member
@StreamerEater Actually there are some valuable lessons to be taken/learned from this thread:

As an app designer one needs to understand the target user base and their needs. Your first set of questions would limit responses and may not hit the mark by leaving some things out.

As a researcher one needs to understand the audience you are 'interviewing'. As you can tell you this did not go well for you. There are many ways of 'interviewing', some direct, others less direct or even subtle If you would of researched this site more before posting you would of taken an entirely different tact (hopefully).
 

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