Tribes call for removal of low Columbia dams.

Driftless Dan

Active Member
There's one in Wenatchee. What was your job with the wind turbine manufacturer?
I was in charge of transporting them from factories in Europe, Asia, and Australia, to the wind farms throughout North America. My favorite job, dealing with chartering entire ocean vessels, super strong cranes, port activities, etc. Like playing with big Tonka Toys.
 

Old406Kid

Active Member
Yesterday, I made a trip to Lewiston and while driving thru the Palouse country paid more attention to the windmills due to this thread.
We had a pretty good west wind so they were turning faster than normal but still looked hypnotizingly slow which left me wondering how there could be so many birds killed. Also, while I'm pondering this, flocks of small birds easily flew and got out of my way as I approached them at highway speeds so how could it be?
Long story short, this left me wondering what the tip speed of an average blade might be and I'll have to admit that I would have underestimated it by quite a bit.

"Depending on wind conditions, the blades turn at rates between 10 and 20 revolutions per minute. Considering the length of the blades with average wind speeds of 13 to 15 mph, the tips are traveling at 120 mph. At maximum wind speeds, the blade tips are spinning at an estimated 180 mph."
 
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Matt Paluch

Active Member
I was in charge of transporting them from factories in Europe, Asia, and Australia, to the wind farms throughout North America. My favorite job, dealing with chartering entire ocean vessels, super strong cranes, port activities, etc. Like playing with big Tonka Toys.
That sounds like a really interesting job. I would challenge your statement that wind and solar cannot replace the dams. If we can power the entire country using about 2% of the landmass with solar alone, we can certainly eliminate a few dams in one region.
 

JamesRPL+

Active Member
Yesterday, I made a trip to Lewiston and while driving thru the Palouse country, due to this thread paid, more attention to the windmills.
We had a pretty good west wind so they were turning faster than normal but still looked hypnotizingly slow which left me wondering how there could be so many birds killed. Also, while I'm pondering this, flocks of small birds easily flew and got out of my way as I approached them at highway speeds so how could it be?
Long story short, this left me wondering what the tip speed of an average blade might be and I'll have to admit that I would have underestimated it by quite a bit.

"Depending on wind conditions, the blades turn at rates between 10 and 20 revolutions per minute. Considering the length of the blades with average wind speeds of 13 to 15 mph, the tips are traveling at 120 mph. At maximum wind speeds, the blade tips are spinning at an estimated 180 mph."
wow,I had no idea
 

GeorgeV

Active Member
Dam removal would be the best thing for fish recovery, the low dams on the Snake are part earth fill, the concrete would not need to be removed. Dam removal would cause a ton of problems. Could bigger or additional generators be added at some dams and other dams removed? People complain about the Indian gill nets, but the white man destroyed The Dalles and other places the Indians could dip net. There is evidence the Indians fished at the The Dalles for over 10K years and never hurt the fishery. The new guys (us) have been here only 214 years. In looking to for people to blame for 'no fish' we've missed the guy that developed the estuaries on the sound. Those were the nurseries for the salmon. We also missed the guy that developed the places the herring spawned.
 

Driftless Dan

Active Member
wow,I had no idea
The wind turbine generator (WTG) blades may look like they're revolving slowly, but the tips are traveling over 300 MPH on larger ones. The newest turbines have a blade radius of over 110 meters, over 360 feet. In desert areas with lots of particulate in the air, the blades have to be repaired every couple years. Fun Fact: Those blades way over 3500 lbs each, but all three need to be balanced within a couple pounds so they revolve smoothly.

I somehow doubt that bat mortality from WTG blades is a significant number, despite the anecdotal evidence. I read that about .2% of overall bat mortality is from WTG; the far larger cause, and I mean something like 75%, is from white nose syndrome. I didn't read that from a wind propaganda site but I believe it came from the Sierra Club, FWIW.

Bird mortality is also a statistically zero compared with cats, windows, and loss of habitat. In the old days, WTG's were mounted on lattice towers like power lines, and birds would see a good perch, head toward it, then BAM! This has dropped 99% since they started using tubular towers. The other thing that caused issues was that some WTG farms were located where the wind is best, including mountain passes that have always been migration routes. The WTG's that are so situated, well, they're mostly still there, but generally, this is taken into consideration when siting new WTG farms. Again, anecdotal evidence to the contrary...
 

JamesRPL+

Active Member
The wind turbine generator (WTG) blades may look like they're revolving slowly, but the tips are traveling over 300 MPH on larger ones. The newest turbines have a blade radius of over 110 meters, over 360 feet. In desert areas with lots of particulate in the air, the blades have to be repaired every couple years. Fun Fact: Those blades way over 3500 lbs each, but all three need to be balanced within a couple pounds so they revolve smoothly.

I somehow doubt that bat mortality from WTG blades is a significant number, despite the anecdotal evidence. I read that about .2% of overall bat mortality is from WTG; the far larger cause, and I mean something like 75%, is from white nose syndrome. I didn't read that from a wind propaganda site but I believe it came from the Sierra Club, FWIW.

Bird mortality is also a statistically zero compared with cats, windows, and loss of habitat. In the old days, WTG's were mounted on lattice towers like power lines, and birds would see a good perch, head toward it, then BAM! This has dropped 99% since they started using tubular towers. The other thing that caused issues was that some WTG farms were located where the wind is best, including mountain passes that have always been migration routes. The WTG's that are so situated, well, they're mostly still there, but generally, this is taken into consideration when siting new WTG farms. Again, anecdotal evidence to the contrary...
[/QUOTE

I just read an article on this white nose syndrome,amazing . Air born whirling disease kinda. Are any agencies taking this serious?
\
 

Driftless Dan

Active Member
No one is advocating removing all the dams on the Columbia, but roof top solar could replace some of that energy.
I agree. It will take some political will on the part of the country, not just Washington.

Take a tenth of a percent of the defense budget and you could buy solar panel for every home owner in the country, is my guess. But no, cutting defense so we're only 20 times stronger than the next biggest military is treason.

Alternatively, fully fund it from increased taxes on Big Oil.
 

thesankers

Active Member
The last nuclear power plant in the USA has already been built. There will be no more. If everything works perfectly over the life of a nuclear power plant, everything's shiny. but YOU CANNOT TRUST THE CORPORATIONS THAT OWN AND OPERATE THEM TO DO THE RIGHT THING!!! One only need to look at the late and unmissed Trojan near Portland; PGE lied continually about issues there until they were finally told to close it down.
Most of this is simply untrue. There are nuclear plants under construction in the US today. There will will also be small modular reactors built in the next 10-20 years and Trojan shut down because it didn't make sense to invest in needed plant improvements while worrying about voter referendums to shut the plant down.
 

2kayaker

Active Member
For a laymens intro into one of several fusion reactor trials , visit youtube.com and search 'First Light Fusion' video. Add a new possible, much safer, cleaner power for our biggest grid systems.
 

Matt Paluch

Active Member
Alcoa shut down years ago and moved production to other states or over seas.
You are correct. I saw some news about the company getting sued over some sort of material released into the Columbia and incorrectly assumed that meant the smelter was still operational.
 
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