More about Dams...Why can't we base things on science and not political influence?

cmann886

Active Member
I asked Representative Brad Klippert via e-mail what the basis for his opposition for removing the Snake River Dams. Among the information that he provided me was the following:

Dear legislators and leaders -

As you know Inslee's study is out attempting to hold pre-emptive hearings with all his "Specialists" when the crisis on the dams was man-made - which never shows up in his studies in spite of the information being sent directly to his office and U of W Professors. EconNorthwest study didn't either or any other study coming because the truth is in the litigation of the Bi-op Itself. But the ESA Exemption Application is on Idaho Governor Little's Desk for serious consideration. See Attached.

See also a few of the key documents you have seen - rough with my own hand-written notes on a bar graph of Juvenile Fish Survival rates to illustrate the following - they ARE rough but all the professional documents you have seen have been sent were received with interest on Solicitor Jourjani's desk with immediate interest. Support Governor Little and make sure the Trump Administration follows through. I have been told by WA DC insider - none of these states are electoral states - but we are tax payers and it's the right thing to do - you are our voice.

2015 - Inslee's "Experts" site 2015 as a trend in water temperatures but it was a low flow year - the first one in 14 years - they lost fish because the Fish Passage Center would transport fish in pens via barge insuring tracking ability to get back up the dams not plane or truck as in the very distant past. Please see Snake River Dam info prior to 2015. 2002-2011 Wild Chinook tripled and Steelhead doubled, Juvenile survival rates met ESA requirements 95% and 98% and IN 2015 Adult fish returns were the highest since 1957 on a sustained 25 year increase of salmon population.

2001 was a low flow year too but 98% of Juvenile fish were transported assuring salmon runs,

2006 - Spill was increased and Transport of Juvenile was decreased - survival has decreased consistently since 2006- spill is NOT working - see bar graph attached. FPC can't count fish bodies they can't find due to disintegration, gas bubbles or predation during spill. No Juvenilies - no Adults PERIOD. Refer back to bar graph.

2015 for short review - is the year that the Fish Passage Center would not direct the Technical Management Team to transport the Juvenile Fish - they DEFIED the judges orders, decades of proven protocol and ignored their Scientific Experts NOAA - REAL Experts who are apolitical compared to Inslee's 55 experts make money off the EIS, the Studies and the bilking to falsify data into a report creating a real quid-pro-quo of corruption if there ever was one. Only the devil uses 1/2 truth's to ruin lives like this. Fish and dams are compatible regardless of "global warming or oceanic changes because of the Adaptive Management of the Corps of Engineers including Barging, Weir's Screens and Raceways around the dams, etc.

In 2015 - the FPC delayed from transport needed in March when NOAA urged them strongly 2' x's to move Juvenile Fish boiling alive and waited until May - only transporting 13% - the Adult Fish Returns showed a 65% loss but the Judge not only denied the obvious Evidentiary Hearing - He did Not ask why FPC didn't follow HIS INSTRUCTIONs - Nor did he ASK WHY THEY didn't follow decades of protocol AND NOAA's scientific directions to move the fish instead he quipped out loud in the court room that the dams might have to be breached after all and ordered a new EIS which the Inslee study is going to be fed into as one of many "Action Agencies" along with other false conclusions based on the bar graph attached.

The Clean Water Act has an exemption if the rivers never met the temperatures pre-dam and they didn't - earlier this year the Fish Passage Center and Inslee's WA State Department of Ecology based on the same Clean Water Act here - tried to create a draft dam breaching during public comment of EPA's permitting process of the Snake River Dams certifying them federally - when that didn't work - they produced this "report". Eastern WA produces almost $7 Billion in Revenue through farming alone not to mention fishing, recreation or tourism- rivaling Idaho state's entire State revenue - Governor Little needs our support - he has the Upper 4 Snake River dams at stake and his economy too. Congress (except Idaho Congressman Simpson) has tried to fix this but they need our action now. The ESA Exemption is made for a time such as this and it is black letter law - a quorum of 5 from the Trump Administration and one hearing and DONE!

Contact your counterparts in Idaho, Cabinet leaders and Whitehouse as indicated below - they have all the very professional documentation of 2015 FPC bad acts, your letters and the ESA Exemption Application. Get THE hearing required in the ESA Exemption and blow these chump Experts playing politics with our failed Governor who is supposed to be a "Defender Intervener".

Call and contact the following:

#1) Washington Legislators and business leaders - contact your COUNTERPARTS in IDAHO

#2) Idaho Governor's Office: (208) 334-2100. and Same Eaton - Policy Advisor (208) 854-3022.

#3) DOI Solicitor Jourjani (202) 208-4423,
Tim Petty, DOI Water and Science (202) 208-3024,
Dave Bernhardt, Secretary of Interior (202) 208-7351
R D James, Civil Works of Corps of Engineers (703) 697-4672

#4) Whitehouse 1-202-456-1111


Regards,
Michelle M. Andres (509) 294-1583
 

Vladimir Steblina

Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working
Having gone through the Spotted Owl planning.........this is the reason that science and scientist should NOT make public policy.

The Clinton Forest Plan was a TWO-FER.....Yep, get a bunch of scientists talking science and give them the authority........

And you get.....The timber workers and companies dependent on public timber........going extinct.

worse yet...........the Spotted Owl is going extinct.

REALLY, flip a damn coin and pick one or the other. The taxpayers and public would have been ahead no matter which side ended up.....winning.
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
I tried, but I don't understand the original post that begins this thread. That said, we don't base decisions on science alone because humans are political animals before and more than they are "science" animals. That is, we as societies base decisions on economic and social values in addition to what science informs us about the results from actions taken. Science is a tool, not the decision maker.
 

Vladimir Steblina

Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working
I tried, but I don't understand the original post that begins this thread. That said, we don't base decisions on science alone because humans are political animals before and more than they are "science" animals. That is, we as societies base decisions on economic and social values in addition to what science informs us about the results from actions taken. Science is a tool, not the decision maker.

well said.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Having gone through the Spotted Owl planning.........this is the reason that science and scientist should NOT make public policy.

The Clinton Forest Plan was a TWO-FER.....Yep, get a bunch of scientists talking science and give them the authority........

And you get.....The timber workers and companies dependent on public timber........going extinct.

worse yet...........the Spotted Owl is going extinct.

REALLY, flip a damn coin and pick one or the other. The taxpayers and public would have been ahead no matter which side ended up.....winning.

A whole lot of truth right there.

We're cutting owl circles now out here. It's a simple process. Keep sending guys in to "study and verify presence". Then when they drive the owls off fire up the saws. Oh and don't do anything about Barred Owl issues. That gets the green groups upset.
 

SilverFly

Active Member
I tried, but I don't understand the original post that begins this thread. That said, we don't base decisions on science alone because humans are political animals before and more than they are "science" animals. That is, we as societies base decisions on economic and social values in addition to what science informs us about the results from actions taken. Science is a tool, not the decision maker.
Glad I'm not the only one cornfused by that email. One would think if you are that passionate about a position, and hell-bent on convincing people in positions of influence, that it might be a good idea to take English Comp first. Geebus, not saying my writing skills are perfect, but this gal can't see the trees, let alone the forest.
 

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