Recently I posted a fly on the tying page that is a version of what I would consider a "Zonker" variety tied on a jig. I have a long history of my obsession with rabbit strip jigs on this site (since at least 2016) and so one would assume at some point I would play around with advancing the rabbit strip forward zonker style and so in a moment of playing around with design I did. I also posted this fly to my instagram:
Two days ago at work i recieved a message on my IG. And I quote, "Rad fly but it looks identical to my Graboid which I have also tied on jigs. I’m not sure if you’re calling this your own but it is identical to the Graboid. It just feels like you’re taking something someone else created and subtly claiming it to be your own pattern without any acknowledgement or credit given. If I’m wrong I apologize but this is what it seems like. "
I defended myself with a initial response, "Hmmm I guess they look similar but it also looks like you do a rabbit fur head and I do a sorta composit loop head. They are both varieties of a zonker more or less which is why I have claimed it as a "zonker jig" and not named it my own. "
Now keep in mind I am an RN and was at work. I dont get many breaks. On my next break I had this:
So we went back and forth. His messages were very passive aggressive as can be seen above. I mainly just argued my points that I have tied and documented this style of jig with legs out the side etc for years and that I wouldn't steal a fly design without giving credit.
It's funny because this particular fly I labeled "Zonker" variety jig. It was the most generic title I could come up with on IG because I am not claiming this design as my own but simply a version of a classic. We reached a point where I thought he was apologizing and I accepted it. I honestly hoped this was over at this point.
At some point a friend commented something on my fly post the next day which was deleted before I saw it. My friend sent me a screen shot of a interaction he had with this guy where again I was being accused of stealing a fly design but now to my friend. So I would say I was being slandered at this point. So i messaged him again, "Let me get this straight you apologize to me then tell my friend I stole your pattern again? As I've already stated the construction and materials are different. I give tags and love on my page to flies I copy or watch videos on and tyers who inspire. I went home and watched the youtube video of this "string leech fly variety" per your own description and again I'm not tying it the same nor with the same materials listed. This is nothing more then a zonker variety and I would hope this issue would be dead as I expected when you apologized. "
His next two messages word for word: "I don’t claim every zonker fly!Not even close.I do claim the Graboid however especially since I make a full time living tying. I tried to apologize and clearly you didn’t accept it given your attitude because when you accept an apology you drop it. Period. My apology was a) to be polite and b) was because you don’t sell them. I ask if you sold your stuff and you ignored the question leading to a poor assumption on my part which I apologized for. I was simply stating the construction is obviously the same steps; based on the bad assumption that you sold them so again.....I’m sorry. You substituted a couple of materials but that’s about it. Honestly I was trying to be polite and civil but I really don’t care if you appreciate it or not at this point. Don’t bite people’s style then call it your own generic“variation” and you won’t run into that issue. That’s all. Have a good day ✌"
Message two: "Your friend was an asshole which seems to be par for the course for you two. You take someone’s construction, sub a couple materials and call it yours. Then get super defensive when someone calls you out. Wrongfully I might add because again, the only thing I was apologizing for was for saying anything and you didn’t actually sell them. I’m not apologizing for you being a style bitter. I feel sorry for the people in your life dude. I hope you don’t have kids!
I did not respond to him between message 1 and 2. After this I was blocked as I was sending him a not as friendly message
Nowhere did I post to him any sort of attack on him, his personal life, his flies etc as he essentially did to me.
So at what point when you put a spin on a classic be it the Zonker, or Stump Buster, or Strung Leech do you get rights to said fly? Is this how a business should be run if there is a blurry line on two flies that look similar?Another message, "But you clearly don’t care. Do that to fly fish food or someone like that. They’ll send you a cease and desist. Im not going to do that because that’s a little over the top. But seriously man, it takes a lot of work to create patterns. They don’t just come out of thin air and I think you know that."
What would the actual law say? Can a cease and desist exist between a string leech and a jig with different materials?
Curious the forums thoughts on this...
Here is recipe of said fly for reference purposes:
4.5 mm slotted bead and size 4 jig hook
rabbit strip
ice dub belly
rubber legs
peacock and olive simiseal head
Two days ago at work i recieved a message on my IG. And I quote, "Rad fly but it looks identical to my Graboid which I have also tied on jigs. I’m not sure if you’re calling this your own but it is identical to the Graboid. It just feels like you’re taking something someone else created and subtly claiming it to be your own pattern without any acknowledgement or credit given. If I’m wrong I apologize but this is what it seems like. "
I defended myself with a initial response, "Hmmm I guess they look similar but it also looks like you do a rabbit fur head and I do a sorta composit loop head. They are both varieties of a zonker more or less which is why I have claimed it as a "zonker jig" and not named it my own. "
Now keep in mind I am an RN and was at work. I dont get many breaks. On my next break I had this:
So we went back and forth. His messages were very passive aggressive as can be seen above. I mainly just argued my points that I have tied and documented this style of jig with legs out the side etc for years and that I wouldn't steal a fly design without giving credit.It's funny because this particular fly I labeled "Zonker" variety jig. It was the most generic title I could come up with on IG because I am not claiming this design as my own but simply a version of a classic. We reached a point where I thought he was apologizing and I accepted it. I honestly hoped this was over at this point.
At some point a friend commented something on my fly post the next day which was deleted before I saw it. My friend sent me a screen shot of a interaction he had with this guy where again I was being accused of stealing a fly design but now to my friend. So I would say I was being slandered at this point. So i messaged him again, "Let me get this straight you apologize to me then tell my friend I stole your pattern again? As I've already stated the construction and materials are different. I give tags and love on my page to flies I copy or watch videos on and tyers who inspire. I went home and watched the youtube video of this "string leech fly variety" per your own description and again I'm not tying it the same nor with the same materials listed. This is nothing more then a zonker variety and I would hope this issue would be dead as I expected when you apologized. "
His next two messages word for word: "I don’t claim every zonker fly!Not even close.I do claim the Graboid however especially since I make a full time living tying. I tried to apologize and clearly you didn’t accept it given your attitude because when you accept an apology you drop it. Period. My apology was a) to be polite and b) was because you don’t sell them. I ask if you sold your stuff and you ignored the question leading to a poor assumption on my part which I apologized for. I was simply stating the construction is obviously the same steps; based on the bad assumption that you sold them so again.....I’m sorry. You substituted a couple of materials but that’s about it. Honestly I was trying to be polite and civil but I really don’t care if you appreciate it or not at this point. Don’t bite people’s style then call it your own generic“variation” and you won’t run into that issue. That’s all. Have a good day ✌"
Message two: "Your friend was an asshole which seems to be par for the course for you two. You take someone’s construction, sub a couple materials and call it yours. Then get super defensive when someone calls you out. Wrongfully I might add because again, the only thing I was apologizing for was for saying anything and you didn’t actually sell them. I’m not apologizing for you being a style bitter. I feel sorry for the people in your life dude. I hope you don’t have kids!
I did not respond to him between message 1 and 2. After this I was blocked as I was sending him a not as friendly message
Nowhere did I post to him any sort of attack on him, his personal life, his flies etc as he essentially did to me.So at what point when you put a spin on a classic be it the Zonker, or Stump Buster, or Strung Leech do you get rights to said fly? Is this how a business should be run if there is a blurry line on two flies that look similar?Another message, "But you clearly don’t care. Do that to fly fish food or someone like that. They’ll send you a cease and desist. Im not going to do that because that’s a little over the top. But seriously man, it takes a lot of work to create patterns. They don’t just come out of thin air and I think you know that."
What would the actual law say? Can a cease and desist exist between a string leech and a jig with different materials?
Curious the forums thoughts on this...
Here is recipe of said fly for reference purposes:
4.5 mm slotted bead and size 4 jig hook
rabbit strip
ice dub belly
rubber legs
peacock and olive simiseal head
