Rajeff Sports?

Nick Clayton

Well-Known Member
WFF Supporter
The warranty situation in the fly rod world is pretty interesting.

I'm no business or marketing expert, but there is not a chance I would own any high end rods without the comfort of a warranty. If all I did was fish dry flies it might be ok, but I would be far too nervous to tie on a clouser and risk damaging a blank without that backup.

I own a lot of Echo rods. I truly believe they are the perfect combo of price point and utility. They just make a damn good fishing rod at a good price. They make perfect guide rods because they perform great but at a price that is easy to justify. I have broken a good handful of them but only sent one back once or twice, and only because they were basically brand new when they broke. I wouldn't feel right about buying a rod, abusing the hell out of it as a guide, then sending it back.

With that in mind if anyone needs a section for an Echo 3S 6 wt, I have several broken ones I can't bring myself to throw away so I probably got ya covered lol.
 

Vandelay Industries

A wholly owned subsidiary of Kramerica Industries
The warranty situation in the fly rod world is pretty interesting.

I'm no business or marketing expert, but there is not a chance I would own any high end rods without the comfort of a warranty. If all I did was fish dry flies it might be ok, but I would be far too nervous to tie on a clouser and risk damaging a blank without that backup.

I own a lot of Echo rods. I truly believe they are the perfect combo of price point and utility. They just make a damn good fishing rod at a good price. They make perfect guide rods because they perform great but at a price that is easy to justify. I have broken a good handful of them but only sent one back once or twice, and only because they were basically brand new when they broke. I wouldn't feel right about buying a rod, abusing the hell out of it as a guide, then sending it back.

With that in mind if anyone needs a section for an Echo 3S 6 wt, I have several broken ones I can't bring myself to throw away so I probably got ya covered lol.
I wouldn't mind taking some of those of your hands as that is my favorite rod.
 
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Old Man

A very Old Man
WFF Supporter
Did you read the rest of the thread, Jim?
Yes just now.

I've never broke a rod just to get a newer one. I've broke rods and threw then away because I never heard of a warranty on them. When I first started fly fishing I went through a few rods because back in 1957 I don't think that they had warranties on the glass rods I had.
 

Hem

Active Member
I've been fly fishing for 45 years. I've broken the tips off three rods. One in a door when I was a kid. Two tips from impact of big flies.
I like Echo so much I'm not going to bullshit them for a new tip on a Ion. I want to see them continue.
 

Gyrfalcon2015

Wild Trout
Yes just now.

I've never broke a rod just to get a newer one. I've broke rods and threw then away because I never heard of a warranty on them. When I first started fly fishing I went through a few rods because back in 1957 I don't think that they had warranties on the glass rods I had.
Seems that Fenwick rods..or was it Orvis with a 25 year warranty (?) were the first. I am going with Fenwick. Maybe Lamiglass. I go back to the late 70's (I bought crap rods then) and into the 1980's. I quit buying nice rods when SAGE starting jacking the prices, imho, and it has been all downhill from there.

I like a rod cheap enough that when I break it, I toss it. I generally have always fished a slower rod, breaking has been rare. I know those are no go for saltwater, steelheaders much.
 

chief

Active Member
You'll find the more focused the company is on rods, the more they're trying to solidify their warranties in the more traditional sense where Warranty = we will cover anything we messed up as the manufacturer, and Repair = We'll fix what you broke on your rod for whatever reason if we are able to, but at your expense.
I agree with this concept. But the challenge is going to be assessing if the breakage was due to the rod being defective, or angler error. I broke the tip on one of my rods recently while netting a fish. I high sticked and the tip snapped. Most likely I had hit it with a fly in the past and caused a nick, but I could claim it was defective as it broke while I was fishing in a normal manner. Manufacturers are going to piss off people that are less reasonable than me if they deny these type of claims and ask for payment on the repair.

Also, if you/they go to a system as described above, I think true defects (warranty claims) should be covered for no cost to the buyer. Under the current system you pay for the repair regardless of who was responsible for the breakage. Yes, it is a nominal charge vs. the cost of a new rod, but why should I pay anything for a manufacturing defect? Maybe some rod manufacturers do this already.

Abel recently repaired a reel for me that had been damaged because salt water had seeped into the "sealed" drag and caused the clutch bearings to seize up. They sent my check back to me with the repaired reel I am assuming because they determined it was a manufacturing defect, not angler error. This is how the system should operate.
 

Evan Burck

Fudge Dragon
it's actually fairly easy to tell the difference. What many don't realize is defective graphite will fail almost immediately. It won't hold its structure under load if it has even a slight defect. Here's a very educational article to explain: https://echoflyfishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Rod-Failure-Article.pdf

We see very few actual defects, but always cover them at no cost. Most breakages from actual fishing use are either high sticking/bad angle (a very easy one to diagnose as it will break in specific spots), and trauma from being hit with a fly.


I agree with this concept. But the challenge is going to be assessing if the breakage was due to the rod being defective, or angler error. I broke the tip on one of my rods recently while netting a fish. I high sticked and the tip snapped. Most likely I had hit it with a fly in the past and caused a nick, but I could claim it was defective as it broke while I was fishing in a normal manner. Manufacturers are going to piss off people that are less reasonable than me if they deny these type of claims and ask for payment on the repair.

Also, if you/they go to a system as described above, I think true defects (warranty claims) should be covered for no cost to the buyer. Under the current system you pay for the repair regardless of who was responsible for the breakage. Yes, it is a nominal charge vs. the cost of a new rod, but why should I pay anything for a manufacturing defect? Maybe some rod manufacturers do this already.

Abel recently repaired a reel for me that had been damaged because salt water had seeped into the "sealed" drag and caused the clutch bearings to seize up. They sent my check back to me with the repaired reel I am assuming because they determined it was a manufacturing defect, not angler error. This is how the system should operate.
 

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
WFF Supporter
Hi @Evan Burck ,
Great to have your insight on these issues.
Here is my perspective. I have a few high end rods and a few economy rods in my collection; there is a difference in how they fish but it isnt a huge difference to me. I fish hard and often and I have had a few broken rod tips over the years, generally due to operator error or "shit happens".
If I have spent say $500 - $1000 on a higher-end new rod, I figure that manufacturer priced the rod to cover a) the cost of manufacture (materials, labor, equipment depreciation, etc.), b) the costs of R&D on the rod, c) the costs of advertising and promotion, and d) a reasonable profit for the manufacturer (not a charity..). If I break a rod tip while fishing (unrelated to a manufacturing defect), I would like to have the rod repaired. As I have already paid for costs b and d, the repair should be priced to cover a and d. I would pay that without a quibble. How much would that be for a $400 Echo rod?
But, if I could not have that high-end rod repaired, I would be FAR more reluctant to shell out the original $500 - $1000. I would treat my rods like waders and less like heirlooms, something that I will use hard for 3-4 years (for waders and wading boots) (or 5-8 years for rods) and then replace. But now, I would replace, through attrition, my high-end rods with economy models.
Steve
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
WFF Supporter
Before graphite rods hit the market in 1973, I don't know if fishing rods came with any warranty at all. If they did, it was likely a 90-day or one year warranty for material or manufacturing defects. That was the original warranty on graphite rods when they were new to the market. It was necessary because so many rods broke due to manufacturing defects because rod makers were essentially still experimenting with graphite technology.

I think Orvis was the first to extend the warranty to a 25-year, no fault. Then when Sage rods hit the $300 mark, they must have thought very few anglers would shell out that kind of money for a plastic fishing rod. This was when you could buy a T&T bamboo rod for $500. So Sage and all the other rod makers began offering lifetime unconditional warranties, which seemed to be the ticket to softening the marketplace to unlimited prices for plastic fly rods. I think it was Loomis, before Gary sold to Shimano, that decided unconditional was unsustainable and began charging a nominal fee to repair or replace damaged rods. Gradually more and more rod makes adopted the policy of fees for repair or replacement.

I find it interesting in that throughout all of this, bamboo rods costing from $1,000 to $3,000 are commonly sold with no warranty, or maybe with an understanding that the maker will repair damage due to defects within some reasonable period of time. Of course, a lot of cane rods are made in one-man or very small shops, that can go out of business or the maker dies, and so does any expectation of a warranty. I guess that's the difference between art and utilitarian plastic.
 

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