NFR Racism Today - A Different Prospective (Possibly)

Jim Darden

Active Member
I wanted to post this on other threads but it just did not fit in...

I have a bit of a different perspective. It is based on my experiences and how it affected me... It will use nomenclature acceptable at that time.

I grew up in Seattle, Burien actually, until I was through the 3rd grade. My dad was transferred to Alabama in 1962 as a part of the Saturn V program. Of course my mom and brother and sisters followed. On our way across the country I saw the first Negro I have ever seen. At that time Seattle was not as diverse as it is today. I asked about that and my parents provided some history about slavery and the environment we were about to enter. At the age of 9 or 10 I had no awareness of it and was quite surprised. Also I could not comprehend it all...

Arriving in Huntsville, Alabama I saw a lot and it was very different than Seattle. There were different classes of people; Southern whites, Negroes, and Northern whites. It was the first time I ever was a minority on the lowest rung of the ladder - a Northern white. I had a lot of issues in school getting along. I was brought up that all people are equal and I found out that was not true...

During my 'stay' in Alabama I learned/saw a lot of things:

There were cotton fields and they were only picked by Negroes.
Negroes lived on the other side of the tracks - a non-desirable section of town.
George Wallace was governor followed by his wife Lurleen.
I watched Governor George Wallace prevent Negroes from entering college campuses in the news. Not sure if TV was available then...
MLK Jr. was very active with marches during my time in Alabama.
I saw the bloody massacre at the Selma Bridge in the news.
I found out deep-fried food was wonderful.
Black-eyed peas, collared greens, corn bread, and pig hooves/ears were a staple at lunch at school lunches.
The 'milk' truck that pulled up delivering gallons of 'milk' every Friday afternoon was not providing 'milk' I could drink...
White Castle burgers were the bomb! Negroes had a separate entrance with separate bathrooms. The Negro bathrooms had not been cleaned in years if not decades. The white bathrooms were sparkling clean.
I learned about the 'N' word and what it truly meant!

The maid we had was a Negro lady. She placed her life on the line to protect the me and my brother and sisters. She lived on 'the other side of the tracks' literally. My parents placed her in the highest regard and helped her in many ways (including financial) because she was great people. Her name was Mabel and she was a part of our family for sure! I just wish I could go back and visit with her now... Truly a great lady!

My mom volunteered registering voters. A white just needed to sign with his name or an 'X'. A Negro had to answer/pass a questionnaire that was 7 pages long. Any wrong answer would not allow the Negro to vote. My mom was college educated, somewhat rare at the time, and she tried to pass the questionnaire questions and could not not pass it.... She was horrified to say the least!!!

My parents had a choice of sending me to a Northern school or moving the family back to the NW. As I indicated earlier I was having a lot of issues being down South. They choose moving the family back to the NW mainly because of my issues.

Skip forward a couple of decades. Civil rights have improved a lot. Negroes (now blacks) were on greater/equal footing and there has been a lot of progress in that regard; or so they say.

I was on a business trip for Boeing to a new manufacturer for interior parts. An engineer and I went to the new facility/manufacturer to determine their capability. Went to lunch provided by the manufacturer which was allowed by Boeing Commercial policy. As we approached the mansion, now restaurant, the president of the company said, 'You do not need to worry about "those" people because they enter by the back door and you will not see them'. I was infuriated (livid) and then some. I did not want to award a contract to them at all due to his bias. So 20+ years only buried the issues just under the public scrutiny so not to be as visible. IT IS THERE!!!!

Skip ahead a couple of decades. My wife and I could not have kids due to some medical issues. We tried In-vitro to no avail. It sure was fun practicing... Hehe. We decided to adopt a couple of girls from China. Best decision we ever made! When our daughters first went to school on the bus they were harassed due to their color. WTF!! My wife and I had many long discussions about it. We taught them that everyone is equal and disregard those attempts. They were only showing that they were not worthy...

There are a lot of discussions nowadays about changing the 'system'. What is not being talked about is what we are teaching our kids to be racist. Kids that are 6 to 8 years of age do not learn about racism by themselves. It is learned/taught from their parents IMHO. It will take a long time to have blacks, browns, yellows, and whites be equal. It is Multi-generational... First we need to start with ourselves and match that with a system of laws that coincide with it. Training will not do it if racism is ingrained into us.

KUDOs to the current generation for standing up and requiring change. It is a top down approach BUT until we have a bottoms up approach to meet it it may be futile...

My edits: Fix typos...
What kind of fly is your favorite for this situation, does it seem to affect your casting on dark days?
 

Kfish

WFF Premium
Ok, I'll share mine and my family's experience with racism, we are Vietnamese.

I've never experience any overt racism myself, but just a couple years ago my sister and her family went to Silverwood theme park in Idaho for a few days. One evening they decided to go to a small local restaurant to dine, the waiter took them all the way to the back of the restaurant. As they sat down several families got up and left (whites), not just one group who could possibly changed their mind or whatever, there were several.

My sister's family didn't dress any differently, their kids were born here (spoke English only), their English is pretty much perfect, we're talking PhD and MD levels of education here and yet what they experienced left a deep impression on them.

Needless to say they are never going back there or any states in the region and I myself have a lot of reservations about going fishing in Montana/Idaho. Not whining or anything, those morons can suck it, but it's sad that this is still a thing in 2020.
 

NRC

WFF Premium
Ok, I'll share mine and my family's experience with racism, we are Vietnamese.

I've never experience any overt racism myself, but just a couple years ago my sister and her family went to Silverwood theme park in Idaho for a few days. One evening they decided to go to a small local restaurant to dine, the waiter took them all the way to the back of the restaurant. As they sat down several families got up and left (whites), not just one group who could possibly changed their mind or whatever, there were several.

My sister's family didn't dress any differently, their kids were born here (spoke English only), their English is pretty much perfect, we're talking PhD and MD levels of education here and yet what they experienced left a deep impression on them.

Needless to say they are never going back there or any states in the region and I myself have a lot of reservations about going fishing in Montana/Idaho. Not whining or anything, those morons can suck it, but it's sad that this is still a thing in 2020.
That sucks! Thanks for sharing.
 

SawyerJones

Active Member
Please do not get me wrong. Absolutely no-one should be subject to the treatment imposed by those reprehensible cops. I sincerely hope that they get what they deserve. And this country has long been due for a racial reckoning. Perhaps I was just taken aback by Sharpton's seeming deification of "Brother George" and wondered if Floyd would have even been physically present for those police to confront had he not been high on fentanyl and meth which, I believe, the father of a six year old should probably be encouraged to avoid.

Fuck that. Who the fuck cares what kinda dope he was on, no cop has any reason to lean into the neck with a knee while the suspect is CUFFED and laying on his STOMACH, while his legs and torso are secured by other officers. He was completely immobilized and should not have been asphyxiated by an unnecessary knee to the neck.

Shaming him for being addicted to narcotics.. that is extremely low of you.
 

Albula

swollen member
Fuck that. Who the fuck cares what kinda dope he was on, no cop has any reason to lean into the neck with a knee while the suspect is CUFFED and laying on his STOMACH, while his legs and torso are secured by other officers. He was completely immobilized and should not have been asphyxiated by an unnecessary knee to the neck.

Shaming him for being addicted to narcotics.. that is extremely low of you.
I believe that is what I said, well, without the gratuitous profanity.
 

Tim Cottage

Formerly tbc1415
WFF Premium
Which autopsy report revealed that he was under the influence of those drugs?
There were two autopsy's and they conflicted.
 

jasmillo

WFF Premium
Ok, I'll share mine and my family's experience with racism, we are Vietnamese.

I've never experience any overt racism myself, but just a couple years ago my sister and her family went to Silverwood theme park in Idaho for a few days. One evening they decided to go to a small local restaurant to dine, the waiter took them all the way to the back of the restaurant. As they sat down several families got up and left (whites), not just one group who could possibly changed their mind or whatever, there were several.

My sister's family didn't dress any differently, their kids were born here (spoke English only), their English is pretty much perfect, we're talking PhD and MD levels of education here and yet what they experienced left a deep impression on them.

Needless to say they are never going back there or any states in the region and I myself have a lot of reservations about going fishing in Montana/Idaho. Not whining or anything, those morons can suck it, but it's sad that this is still a thing in 2020.

Thanks for sharing @Kfish. When I lived in northern Idaho and western Montana while going to school, my dad and one of his brothers talked often of coming out to fish the rivers I told them about. I was all for it but in the back of my mind wondered if we could potentially run into issues like that considering their father was Filipino and mother was Puerto Rican. I myself never ran into any issues but I am also half white so I think most folks think I might be Italian or maybe the much less handsome second cousin of Keanu Reeves.

I’ll say this about the the vast majority of the folks I met in both of those states. They were very honest and very genuine people. I ran across very few people I personally would consider truly racist with beliefs driven by hate. I did run across a number that I would call ignorant to cultures outside of their own whose actions and sometimes words were driven by lack of exposure to other kinds of people. Some had an interest in learning more. Some did not. To be fair, you see the same with people that grow up in urban areas and how some of them might talk about folks from rural areas. Their actions and words are often not driven by hate but more by lack of exposure which leads to ignorance.

Not sure I explained that well but what I guess I am trying to say is I hope that experience does not stop you or your family from enjoying that part of the country due to the actions of a few morons. I honestly think you’d be perfectly safe but you might have a few awkward interactions and probably a few odd questions thrown your way (I got a number of gems when some of my new friends found out my background :)). Questions are good though, even if some of them might be very ignorant. That at least means they are curious and are trying to develop some kind of understanding.

All that being said, there are a few areas I have heard stories about and probably wouldn’t spend time in. Pockets where hateful cowards congregate based on their garbage belief systems. Those pockets can be found all across the country though and most definitely are not representative of all of Montana and Idaho.
 

Kfish

WFF Premium
Thanks for sharing Jasmillo! I agree that was probably an odd phenomenon and that most people are genuinely good.

I must also add that Vietnamese (and other Asian groups) aren't free of prejudices either. Most notably my parent's generation and the way they look down upon African Americans as somehow inferior. It's a common theme of ignorance and stemmed from the lack of interactions, stereotypes and portrayals on the media.

I believe things will get better though no matter how slow :)
 

Rocking Chair Fan

No more hot spotting
What kind of fly is your favorite for this situation, does it seem to affect your casting on dark days?

I fish the white dry fly with a black woolly bugger. It is cast with ease on a full-flexing rod made in Asia... Dark or light conditions, the fish have a well presented smorgasbord to choose from.
 

Lue Taylor

Lue Taylor/dbfly
I wanted to post this on other threads but it just did not fit in...

I have a bit of a different perspective. It is based on my experiences and how it affected me... It will use nomenclature acceptable at that time.

I grew up in Seattle, Burien actually, until I was through the 3rd grade. My dad was transferred to Alabama in 1962 as a part of the Saturn V program. Of course my mom and brother and sisters followed. On our way across the country I saw the first Negro I have ever seen. At that time Seattle was not as diverse as it is today. I asked about that and my parents provided some history about slavery and the environment we were about to enter. At the age of 9 or 10 I had no awareness of it and was quite surprised. Also I could not comprehend it all...

Arriving in Huntsville, Alabama I saw a lot and it was very different than Seattle. There were different classes of people; Southern whites, Negroes, and Northern whites. It was the first time I ever was a minority on the lowest rung of the ladder - a Northern white. I had a lot of issues in school getting along. I was brought up that all people are equal and I found out that was not true...

During my 'stay' in Alabama I learned/saw a lot of things:

There were cotton fields and they were only picked by Negroes.
Negroes lived on the other side of the tracks - a non-desirable section of town.
George Wallace was governor followed by his wife Lurleen.
I watched Governor George Wallace prevent Negroes from entering college campuses in the news. Not sure if TV was available then...
MLK Jr. was very active with marches during my time in Alabama.
I saw the bloody massacre at the Selma Bridge in the news.
I found out deep-fried food was wonderful.
Black-eyed peas, collared greens, corn bread, and pig hooves/ears were a staple at lunch at school lunches.
The 'milk' truck that pulled up delivering gallons of 'milk' every Friday afternoon was not providing 'milk' I could drink...
White Castle burgers were the bomb! Negroes had a separate entrance with separate bathrooms. The Negro bathrooms had not been cleaned in years if not decades. The white bathrooms were sparkling clean.
I learned about the 'N' word and what it truly meant!

The maid we had was a Negro lady. She placed her life on the line to protect the me and my brother and sisters. She lived on 'the other side of the tracks' literally. My parents placed her in the highest regard and helped her in many ways (including financial) because she was great people. Her name was Mabel and she was a part of our family for sure! I just wish I could go back and visit with her now... Truly a great lady!

My mom volunteered registering voters. A white just needed to sign with his name or an 'X'. A Negro had to answer/pass a questionnaire that was 7 pages long. Any wrong answer would not allow the Negro to vote. My mom was college educated, somewhat rare at the time, and she tried to pass the questionnaire questions and could not not pass it.... She was horrified to say the least!!!

My parents had a choice of sending me to a Northern school or moving the family back to the NW. As I indicated earlier I was having a lot of issues being down South. They choose moving the family back to the NW mainly because of my issues.

Skip forward a couple of decades. Civil rights have improved a lot. Negroes (now blacks) were on greater/equal footing and there has been a lot of progress in that regard; or so they say.

I was on a business trip for Boeing to a new manufacturer for interior parts. An engineer and I went to the new facility/manufacturer to determine their capability. Went to lunch provided by the manufacturer which was allowed by Boeing Commercial policy. As we approached the mansion, now restaurant, the president of the company said, 'You do not need to worry about "those" people because they enter by the back door and you will not see them'. I was infuriated (livid) and then some. I did not want to award a contract to them at all due to his bias. So 20+ years only buried the issues just under the public scrutiny so not to be as visible. IT IS THERE!!!!

Skip ahead a couple of decades. My wife and I could not have kids due to some medical issues. We tried In-vitro to no avail. It sure was fun practicing... Hehe. We decided to adopt a couple of girls from China. Best decision we ever made! When our daughters first went to school on the bus they were harassed due to their color. WTF!! My wife and I had many long discussions about it. We taught them that everyone is equal and disregard those attempts. They were only showing that they were not worthy...

There are a lot of discussions nowadays about changing the 'system'. What is not being talked about is what we are teaching our kids to be racist. Kids that are 6 to 8 years of age do not learn about racism by themselves. It is learned/taught from their parents IMHO. It will take a long time to have blacks, browns, yellows, and whites be equal. It is Multi-generational... First we need to start with ourselves and match that with a system of laws that coincide with it. Training will not do it if racism is ingrained into us.

KUDOs to the current generation for standing up and requiring change. It is a top down approach BUT until we have a bottoms up approach to meet it it may be futile...

My edits: Fix typos...
Rock Creek Fan I met you Steve and I Guy/Women Flyfishing meetings you seem to be a nice guy. Steve and I was really piss at you for not inviting us to that lake that had 34 inch fish. Who would not want to try for 34 inch fish. Now the facts maybe you should contact your Maid of childhood ask her what she perfer to be called Negro or Afro-American, Black or ask any of your Black friends. Because the last time I can remember being called Negro was one of the two ass whipping by my parents (Mom) said Negro don't you dare move because I am going beat that ass and if you move I am going to kill you(This came about because I came home without my sister which we left together and I did not know where she was I was 15 my sister was 16).
 

Rocking Chair Fan

No more hot spotting
@Lue Taylor and @Steve Kokita, I have only invited 3 or 4 people over since I met both of you. Those were nice if not great times for sure. I invited @hbmcc when he could finally have a day away from his obligations of the medical issues of his wife. His first fish was 18" - the largest he has ever caught. His second fish was 24"+. He lost a third fish when it broke his 10 pound test line. I invited him and his wife over but that did not occur unfortunately. I also invited over @mat1226 so he could fish with his grandson and help develop a bond with him. They did develop a bond as well as catch some fish.

Our adoption group gets together every year at our place for last 20+ years. I have taken out the girls several times fishing. Most get bored after 15 minutes. One of them Evelyn loved fishing. We went out several times. She sent me a note after one of those saying she loved the 'tug'. She is now hooked on fishing...

I have had a couple of youngsters fish on the lake. It was a part of the Make-A-Wish program. Their wish was made.

There have been a couple of others for similar reasons - just can not remember their names/handles.

I try to share good times on the lake with those that may not experience it ever in their life times. Making great memories is very important to me and I share when I can... That is my priority - making dreams come true.

I have a long time friend (Steve) that introduced his kids to fishing for trout on the lake we live on. He is a big time successful salmon fisherman and brings over a nice salmon to BBQ every 4th of July (24 years+). We were out with his kids and had four trout all over 20"s on at the same time. He was trying to explain that to them it was not normal - LOL.

Am I slighting you or Steve? No! It will happen. Just remember it is called fishing and not catching... LOL
 

DarrellP

Wannabe Steelheader
One other thing that I will add. Living currently near Jackson ,MS, the entire police force is black except for one white cop. Nobody says anything when police shoot or kill someone. Black cops don't even get desk duty during investigations. Jackson also has a black on black murder rate higher than Compton or Chicago. One poor guy got decapitated while awake as a warning to someone, a child was killed because his Dad was a dealer, etc. My point is that no news channels say a thing.

I know that white cops killing black people brings back old and recent memories, but death is death. If someone kills me, I don't give a Damn what color he is. We need educational reform, drug rehab instead of jail, no jail for nonviolent crime except trafficking or exploitation, and to pay cops enough to hire people who can think. Most cops are great people, but it does draw a certain number of angry, young bigoted hotheads.
 

gt

Active Member
i grew up on the 'near westside of Chicago' 15th street and California Ave. my neighborhood was ethnically diverse with folks from all over europe and the balkans but no asians or black people. the city was run by a series of aldermen, each with a specific geographic area under control. our alderman made it a point to keep blacks and asians out of our immediate neighborhood. but if you were alive and remember the Chicago riots with the democratic national convention, that happened on 12th street so not that far from my home.

my dad was a fighter pilot who spend the war years in the S Pacific, conflicts which never make the news because they were so terribly bloody. did you know more people were killed in the one island invasion of Iwo jima than on all the beaches of Normandy?? when he returned from that duty, he remained in the active reserves. he was reactivated when the Cuban missle crisis erupted and was sent to Sumpter, SC. from there his wing flew daily patrols up and down the east coast, Greenland to just short of Cuba.

my mom who spent all the war years not knowing if my dad was alive or dead asked the family to move to SC. i clearly remember going into the business center of that city with my dad and seeing a 'colored only' drinking fountain. i had never seen colored water before but my dad about jerked my arm off pulling me away. i was in 3rd grade and the white southern kids took it upon themselves to harase and threaten a white kid from the city. at one point i had to ram this kids head into the chainlink fence around the playground to put a stop to this.

when i retired, i decided to do a big MC tour labeled the '4 corners' by the Ironbutt riding club. Blain, WA -> Madaska, MN -> Key West, FL -> San Ysidro, CA. what i found in the SE is exactly what i experienced as a small kids decades before.

can we change now?? certainly not with the orange man in the WH and the bobble head GOP senators currently seated. this is very depressing to me to see our country fall into 3rd world status in 3 short years.

stay safe out there, you life and mine depend on it!
 

Skip Enge

Uck Uck Uck, bitches
I was raised in a small rural community. Mostly rednecks and hippies. We were diverse but no African Americans, sorry i don't know or care what the modern pc adjective is.
In High school we had our first AA. Now this was a community very sympathetic to poaching and this boy was the son of the game warden.
He may have received some racism against him, his father certainty did. However the people who spoke to me about him, complained about his dad being the warden.

Treat people the way you want to be treated. If you don't like someone because of how they look, something we all do, treat them how you want to be treated and keep how you feel to your self.
Do you even know what a hippy is? Boy do you generalize. Rob...maybe they were I don't know but sometimes you lump stuff together...and I realize it's easy to brand "hippys" but I have to wonder if that is a bias showing... Hippys changed our world in the right way...protest..."this shit is wrong" good for them. Needs to happen now...in a big way...I will watch.I'm old and just happy...so when you let your shit fly through not even th inking just posting you convey a n attitude that pisses some sensitive folks off. Me included..
 

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