Car break ins? Lenice/Nunnally?

Driftless Dan

Driftless Dan
WFF Supporter
Maybe you don't think property crime is a problem in need of a solution, or maybe you have an alternative solution in mind. I'm open minded to effective alternatives.

I don't think property crime is a capital offense, or ever should be considered as such.

The solution is at the same time easy and difficult - vote in legislators who write laws that have teeth in them; elect executives who place judges in power who will enforce those laws (or when you can vote for judges, vote for that type).

In my neck of the woods, this is called representative democracy.
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
The solution is at the same time easy and difficult - vote in legislators who write laws that have teeth in them;

We do have laws against property crime, but the lack of adverse consequences makes such crime worth doing. Having prosecutors and judges who would enforce those laws isn't enough to deter property crime. As long as the crime is more profitable than the consequences, the crime will continue. Now, philosophically at least, I agree that property crime should not be a capital offense because penalties should be proportionate to the crime. However, it seems like the only way to remove the profit motive from B&E is lethal force because it is the only option presently that precludes recidivism. And the police tell us that 90% of the crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

Your solution isn't both easy and difficult. It's an alternative that society has already rejected, beginning when they stopped hanging horse thieves. And property crime has steadily become more profitable.
 

Driftless Dan

Driftless Dan
WFF Supporter
We do have laws against property crime, but the lack of adverse consequences makes such crime worth doing. Having prosecutors and judges who would enforce those laws isn't enough to deter property crime. As long as the crime is more profitable than the consequences, the crime will continue. Now, philosophically at least, I agree that property crime should not be a capital offense because penalties should be proportionate to the crime. However, it seems like the only way to remove the profit motive from B&E is lethal force because it is the only option presently that precludes recidivism. And the police tell us that 90% of the crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

Your solution isn't both easy and difficult. It's an alternative that society has already rejected, beginning when they stopped hanging horse thieves. And property crime has steadily become more profitable.
You are just excusing vigilantism. Exactly, 100% the opposite of what makes America great.
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
You are just excusing vigilantism. Exactly, 100% the opposite of what makes America great.

Vigilantism is not what I want. I want a world where actions have consequences, but not when stealing other people's stuff is effectively enabled by the justice system and is rewarded as a profitable enterprise. I want it to be legally, ethically, and morally acceptable to defend oneself and one's property from theft. This is not the same as shooting someone for trespassing - "Hey, get off my lawn!" "Boom!" Presently the law prohibits me from physically stopping someone who breaks into my garage, hooks my boat trailer up to his truck, and begins driving off with it. Legally I can't do a damn thing unless the perp physically threatens me with bodily harm or I am 100% certain that he will. This is the crazy world we live in. I want to prevent the perp from driving off with my boat. I would be willing to solve it with two shots center mass and one to the head. Theft prevented; recidivism prevented, and I should be commended for making my community a better place. But I'm only allowed to call 911. And when seconds count, the country deputies are only 30 minutes away (and I live close in).

Please tell us how enabling and promoting property crime makes America great. I must have missed that lecture.
 

Driftless Dan

Driftless Dan
WFF Supporter
Vigilantism is not what I want. I want a world where actions have consequences, but not when stealing other people's stuff is effectively enabled by the justice system and is rewarded as a profitable enterprise. I want it to be legally, ethically, and morally acceptable to defend oneself and one's property from theft. This is not the same as shooting someone for trespassing - "Hey, get off my lawn!" "Boom!" Presently the law prohibits me from physically stopping someone who breaks into my garage, hooks my boat trailer up to his truck, and begins driving off with it. Legally I can't do a damn thing unless the perp physically threatens me with bodily harm or I am 100% certain that he will. This is the crazy world we live in. I want to prevent the perp from driving off with my boat. I would be willing to solve it with two shots center mass and one to the head. Theft prevented; recidivism prevented, and I should be commended for making my community a better place. But I'm only allowed to call 911. And when seconds count, the country deputies are only 30 minutes away (and I live close in).

Please tell us how enabling and promoting property crime makes America great. I must have missed that lecture.
It has nothing to do with that. But of course you know that. The fact that you feel that there is any proportionality with property crime and murder indicates you are not fond of the rule of law - just like our current president.

I hope you do shoot somebody trying to break into your truck and spend the rest of your miserable days in jail.
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
I hope you do shoot somebody trying to break into your truck and spend the rest of your miserable days in jail.

Don't worry, I won't. The reason being it is illegal. It's not just a matter of proportionality. To me this is a matter of effectively deterring a class of crime. If there is another viable and effective alternative, I would favor that over lethal force. But I don't know of any such alternative. Do you?

Clearly some of us favor enabling property crime, and some of us want to curb it. You're one of the former, and I'm one of the latter. Even so, I don't wish for your property to be stolen instead of mine.
 

Buzzy

Active Member
It has nothing to do with that. But of course you know that. The fact that you feel that there is any proportionality with property crime and murder indicates you are not fond of the rule of law - just like our current president.

I hope you do shoot somebody trying to break into your truck and spend the rest of your miserable days in jail.
I can't remember a nastier wish expressed by forum members. Driftless, what an awful thing to write.
 

wanative

Retired, gone fishin'
Drug addiction is the root of 90 percent of burglaries and theft. Consequences don't matter to hopeless drug addicts.
Address the societal dilemma of rampant drug addiction and the crime problem will go away.
 

Rocking Chair Fan

No more hot spotting
Drug addiction is the root of 90 percent of burglaries and theft. Consequences don't matter to hopeless drug addicts.
Address the societal dilemma of rampant drug addiction and the crime problem will go away.
While I agree drug addiction is very prominent in thefts and burglarizes, there were lots of crimes before drug issues became so prevalent... The current drug issue just accentuated it IMHO. Our police focus and lack of detention of criminals exacerbated the issue.... Until our laws change and people are held accountable for their actions, it will continue...When I was growing up if I did Grand Theft Auto, I was locked up for years! Now it takes 10+ times doing it and if I do not appear in court, it becomes ho hum - he/she should know better. There is absolutely no cause and effect for a criminal actions!
 

Old406Kid

Active Member
Until our laws change and people are held accountable for their actions, it will continue...When I was growing up if I did Grand Theft Auto, I was locked up for years! Now it takes 10+ times doing it and if I do not appear in court, it becomes ho hum - he/she should know better. There is absolutely no cause and effect for a criminal actions

Sadly, another societal trend that has backfired. :(
If these guys knew they would be locked up or saw their buddies locked up for a reasonable amount of time they might think twice rather than using their quick release as bragging rights.
 

Buzzy

Active Member
While I agree drug addiction is very prominent in thefts and burglarizes, there were lots of crimes before drug issues became so prevalent... The current drug issue just accentuated it IMHO. Our police focus and lack of detention of criminals exacerbated the issue.... Until our laws change and people are held accountable for their actions, it will continue...When I was growing up if I did Grand Theft Auto, I was locked up for years! Now it takes 10+ times doing it and if I do not appear in court, it becomes ho hum - he/she should know better. There is absolutely no cause and effect for a criminal actions!
I think drug addiction; the crack pipe, heroin, whatever, has greatly increased car break ins (since this thread was originally about car break ins). If the story about the CWU kids is true (room full of fly fishing gear) and they weren't stealing to support a habit, then they're "just" thieves. Regardless, there are no consequences for this type of crime. Where the hell are we headed if car thieves aren't dealt a heavy sentence (jail/prison) for stealing a car? Oh, we're there. But wait..............

Sadly, another societal trend that has backfired. :(
If these guys knew they would be locked up or saw their buddies locked up for a reasonable amount of time they might think twice rather than using their quick release as bragging rights.

Rather than defund police departments we need to defund a few judges and replace them with judges who recognize crime as crime. Remember the tourist kid: "caning" in Singapore? Key a car, get 30 lashes with "split cane". Or

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Well, heck. Just out of bed and already I want to go to the pistol range.
 

Driftless Dan

Driftless Dan
WFF Supporter
Don't worry, I won't. The reason being it is illegal. It's not just a matter of proportionality. To me this is a matter of effectively deterring a class of crime. If there is another viable and effective alternative, I would favor that over lethal force. But I don't know of any such alternative. Do you?

Clearly some of us favor enabling property crime, and some of us want to curb it. You're one of the former, and I'm one of the latter. Even so, I don't wish for your property to be stolen instead of mine.
I already wrote the alternative. Vote into office those who would put teeth into the laws you want enforced. Or run on such a platform yourself.
 

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