buff face mask worse than maskless for covid

Josh

dead in the water
WFF Moderator
Edited the thread title to grab more eyes since I think this is an important topic.

I suspect lots of us have been using a Buff or similar because it's an easy mask solution.
 

IveofIone

WFF Supporter
This whole deal sounds like an instance of a single observation, a single kernel of information being spread rapidly through the cyber world and becomes fact within 24 hours. No further research necessary folks, accept it as truth and move on.

It really is counterintuitive to think that having nothing over your face is actually better that having a somewhat porous buff.

This type of thinking would suggest that giving a starving man no food would somehow be better than giving him some food.
 

IveofIone

WFF Supporter
This whole deal sounds like an instance of a single observation, a single kernel of information being spread rapidly through the cyber world and becomes fact within 24 hours. No further research necessary folks, accept it as truth and move on.

It really is counterintuitive to think that having nothing over your face is actually better that having a somewhat porous buff.

This type of thinking would suggest that giving a starving man no food would somehow be better than giving him some food.
 

Yard Sale

Huge Member
This whole deal sounds like an instance of a single observation, a single kernel of information being spread rapidly through the cyber world and becomes fact within 24 hours. No further research necessary folks, accept it as truth and move on.

It really is counterintuitive to think that having nothing over your face is actually better that having a somewhat porous buff.

This type of thinking would suggest that giving a starving man no food would somehow be better than giving him some food.


Actually it makes perfect sense. Instead of a few big droplets coming out and falling to the ground a thin buff turns those drops into a mist which hangs in the air much longer.
 

IveofIone

WFF Supporter
Yard, this has the scent of pseudo science-a theory that might sound logical so everyone gets on the bandwagon but remember-we are trying to say that having nothing on is better than having something on. Before I accept that as gospel I would like to see some qualified investigation rather than a kneejerk assumption.

We have enough kneejerk reactions coming out of Washington already.


Actually it makes perfect sense. Instead of a few big droplets coming out and falling to the ground a thin buff turns those drops into a mist which hangs in the air much longer
 

Eco.Geeko

Member
Here's an article on the study . Its hardly conclusive that a buff is worse than nothing:
  • that wasn't what they were testing
  • they may may have only tested one type of buff (fleece)
  • there's a ton of variability based on the user that wasn't tested for
Do your best. That's all anyone can ask
 

SilverFly

Active Member
Well I'm not a PhD researcher, but I do have to deal with particle problems in a clean room facility where microchips are being fabricated. I can assure you that hunting down a particle source can be maddeningly difficult, and is frequently very counter-intuitive. One of the most vexing problems haunted us for weeks, and was so bad I coined an acronym when we finally isolated the source for PHARTICLEs (Particles Homogenously Aerosolized Resultant To Intermittent (air) Cylinder Leak. PhD material? Probably not, but gotta have some fun.

Anyway, the point being stuff that happens on microscopic scales doesn't always make sense, and tends to get weirder as things get smaller. In fact, the size of a particle can have a huge effect on how it moves through the air, is attracted or repelled by the size/shape/composition of materials it encounters. And while I didn't read the study (yet), what @PV_Premier posted makes a ton of sense to me:

The issue, for those who didn't read the study, is that a single layer of fine polyester fabric can actually cause larger droplets from spit/sneeze/cough to become smaller when forced through the fabric and thus disperse in air more readily. Triple layer cotton fabric masks didn't seem to have this problem.

On a microscopic scale, those fine poly fibers are round in cross-section and very smooth (effectively "wires" with very little for a particle to "catch' on). So a snot-droplet moving at high velocity impacting a thin layer of poly fabric would be similar to throwing a jello-shot at a screen door. Replace the screen door with a blanket (analog to a cotton cloth or legit mask) and you just have a disgusting mess to clean up.
 

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
WFF Supporter
Hi folks,
A key part of the scientific process is replication of a result by others and extensions of that result. It is premature to make any firm conclusions on a study with a single participant using a single type of neck buff. But I'm confident that other researchers will try to confirm (or debunk) this result.
Steve
 

Mike

Active Member
The 1918 Mask Ordinance in SFO required masks to be 4 layers thick. They had it figured out then. Now a study shows that a mask made of a single layer of polyester material is ineffective. The material is not only too porous, but the material actually breaks down the larger aerosolized droplets into smaller ones that take longer to drop to the ground. Hence more easily taken in by the stranger next to you or the other way around. But old knowledge and new proof are to difficult for some to understand, or it provides answers they don’t want to hear. As such, the findings are debunked.

I would suggest that you try your own test to mask effectiveness. Put on a “Buff” or similar type mask and try to blow out a lit candle. Now do the same with a 3 layer paper surgical mask. If you don’t like the effective results, you have only yourself to argue with and you can leave the rest of us out of it. The test idea comes from Bill Nye.
 
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tbuss

Member
There are buffs out there (I have some) that have a pocket where you can insert a filter. I am not sure how close to a N95 the filter is, but it is pretty thick. Even without the filter the material is thicker than most buffs and is doubled where the filter goes. If you are interested Amazon sells them.
 

CrawBugger

Active Member
Please people use Logical thinking. The enemy isn't as smart as you give him Credit for. Open facesheild protects you from what? Spitting cobras. We are in an age where we must question everything. Hopefully your gut flora is up to task.
 

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