WA State Slashes Hatcheries

D

Deleted member 10700

A major cut to hatchery funding could be handled with very small impact to WA recreational angling. Hatcheries are the largest line item in the WDFW budget. Yes, you read that right. WDFW spends about $87 million a year on hatchery production. 78% of that is spent raising hatchery salmon and steelhead, mostly salmon. Most of the hatchery salmon are harvested in fisheries in Canada, Alaska, WA ocean commercial, and WA treaty Indian fisheries. Only a relatively small percentage of that salmon production accrues to WA recreational angling. Consequently the biggest gainers in WA from hatchery salmon production are NT commercial and treaty Indian fisheries.

I think zero cuts should occur to hatchery production of trout or other fish that accrue to inland and landlocked, non-anadromous fishing. The reason is because all of those fish that get caught will be caught be WA taxpayers and WDFW license buyers, which is good for the revenue stream. Canada and Alaska pay zero into raising hatchery salmon, so they should not be a factor in the decision making. WA NT (non-treaty) commercial and treaty fishermen comprise less than 2% of the WA state population, so they pay the very least into supporting the hatchery salmon system. So why raise fish for them during an economic crisis? Unless of course they want and choose to chip in enough revenue to offset what they take. I'm not saying WDFW should shut down all salmon hatcheries, only the ones that deliver the fewest salmon to WA recreational fishing, and enough to erase the gap created by the budget cut.

Please don't bring up the Indian treaty fishing right unless you have material to refute that there is no adjudicated ruling requiring WA to pay to raise hatchery fish for treaty Indian fishing. The tribal treaties are federal treaties, and the federal government can fund salmon hatcheries for treaty fishing if they want to. In fact, the feds do fund two hatcheries specifically for tribes, Cook Creek on the Quinault reservation and Sooes River on the Makah reservation.

Of course, WDFW won't employ this line of logic in deciding cuts.
My understanding is that the WDFW charter is specifically written that their priority is to protect commercial fishing interests. Your comments here seem to indicate they are doing just that. If my understanding is correct, is there a way to change the charter?
 
B

bennysbuddy

I seriously doubt the general public could care about fish hatcheries or sportfishing. most of my friends are hoping to keep their jobs & dealing with home schooling issues with their kids. I don't see many folks making much of a uproar over this given the times.
 

wetswinger

Active Member
Please don't fire bomb my house..but, sales tax is a shitty way to generate funds for a government. It's not reliable and is impossible to do an accurate budget with. Washington will always have a monetary crisis because it relies on sales tax. As the economy booms and bust so goes the tax income. So dare I say it...income tax...Also, if the porno president would quit punishing the states for his errors and throw some money at the economy things might be a little better...
 
B

bennysbuddy

Please don't fire bomb my house..but, sales tax is a shitty way to generate funds for a government. It's not reliable and is impossible to do an accurate budget with. Washington will always have a monetary crisis because it relies on sales tax. As the economy booms and bust so goes the tax income. So dare I say it...income tax...Also, if the porno president would quit punishing the states for his errors and throw some money at the economy things might be a little better...
How about we get rid of all the other taxes & go with a state income tax, the economy will get better when people go back to work giving people more money on unemployment than they make working is only going to add to the debt & cause people to not look for jobs
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
WFF Supporter
How about we get rid of all the other taxes & go with a state income tax, the economy will get better when people go back to work giving people more money on unemployment than they make working is only going to add to the debt & cause people to not look for jobs
Having lived with a state income tax I can tell you this. It does not eliminate sales tax. Municipalities are still going to tax you on sales and the state will eventually piggy back on that...because it's too easy to do. Shit ain't free and you're going to pay for it one way or another.
 

girlfisher

Active Member
How about we get rid of all the other taxes & go with a state income tax, the economy will get better when people go back to work giving people more money on unemployment than they make working is only going to add to the debt & cause people to not look for jobs
Assuming your point is true, what do you suppose they will spend the money on? I can't imagine an accumulation of disposable income. So that probably leaves items like the rent they haven't paid for months and other essentials. And this does not help the economy come back?
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
Assuming your point is true, what do you suppose they will spend the money on? I can't imagine an accumulation of disposable income. So that probably leaves items like the rent they haven't paid for months and other essentials. And this does not help the economy come back?


Have to get everyone back to work... covid be damned.. we can't complain about a lack of revenue and not work for fear of getting sick at the same time.. one or the other HAS to be reality. It is impossible to have both...
 

Shad

Active Member
Having lived with a state income tax I can tell you this. It does not eliminate sales tax. Municipalities are still going to tax you on sales and the state will eventually piggy back on that...because it's too easy to do. Shit ain't free and you're going to pay for it one way or another.
This has been the unfortunate truth, largely because no state has been willing to give up their right to create new taxes upon implementing an income tax (they just know they'll need to keep that tax card handy). That said, sales taxes are regressive and a huge part of what is eroding middle class spending power, so I personally favor an income-based model.

If I were king for a day, I'd abolish every sales tax, implement an across-the-board income tax, and make it illegal for the state legislature to impose new taxes. As long as people get regular cost of living salary increases and the tax rate never changes, the pool of revenue should increase proportionally with the pool of citizens. There you have it. Fair... Sustainable... In other words, a pipe dream.
 
D

Deleted member 10700

Please don't fire bomb my house..but, sales tax is a shitty way to generate funds for a government. It's not reliable and is impossible to do an accurate budget with. Washington will always have a monetary crisis because it relies on sales tax. As the economy booms and bust so goes the tax income. So dare I say it...income tax...Also, if the porno president would quit punishing the states for his errors and throw some money at the economy things might be a little better...
Texas, Tennessee and Florida have no state income tax, rely entirely on sales tax revenue and curiously have 3 of the most diverse and stable economies in the United States. They also have some of the highest standards of living and lowest costs of living in the country.
As a society we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
My understanding is that the WDFW charter is specifically written that their priority is to protect commercial fishing interests. Your comments here seem to indicate they are doing just that. If my understanding is correct, is there a way to change the charter?

The enabling legislation, and WACs have been amended to include protection and perpetuation of state fish and wildlife resources and to provide hunting and fishing - recreational and commercial - opportunities. There is nothing at law about how much commercial fishing opportunity. WA state ran out of wild salmon for commercial fishing some years ago now, and if it weren't for hatchery salmon there would be next to no commercial or recreational salmon fishing. I'm not saying there should be no commercial salmon fishing, only that the commercials get whatever is left after closing the budget gap with hatchery closures that include those hatcheries that return the least benefit to WA taxpayers and license buyers. In other words, WDFW should stop biting the hand that feeds it. NT commercial and treaty fishermen return the least revenue to the Department. It stands to economic reason that they be provided the least benefit, especially when funding is tight.
 
D

Deleted member 10700

The enabling legislation, and WACs have been amended to include protection and perpetuation of state fish and wildlife resources and to provide hunting and fishing - recreational and commercial - opportunities. There is nothing at law about how much commercial fishing opportunity. WA state ran out of wild salmon for commercial fishing some years ago now, and if it weren't for hatchery salmon there would be next to no commercial or recreational salmon fishing. I'm not saying there should be no commercial salmon fishing, only that the commercials get whatever is left after closing the budget gap with hatchery closures that include those hatcheries that return the least benefit to WA taxpayers and license buyers. In other words, WDFW should stop biting the hand that feeds it. NT commercial and treaty fishermen return the least revenue to the Department. It stands to economic reason that they be provided the least benefit, especially when funding is tight.
Is there any effort by Washington state to recover money from Alaskan or Canadian commercial fishing interests for the salmon that are reared in Washington hatcheries? I know this seems like a simple minded question but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard this addressed.
 

smc

Active Member
Texas, Tennessee and Florida have no state income tax, rely entirely on sales tax revenue and curiously have 3 of the most diverse and stable economies in the United States. They also have some of the highest standards of living and lowest costs of living in the country.
As a society we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

Yeah, those states are great. Especially if you don’t consider little things like pre-k to 12th grade education, access to health care and poverty rates.
 

quilbilly

Big Time Hater
Texas, Tennessee and Florida have no state income tax, rely entirely on sales tax revenue and curiously have 3 of the most diverse and stable economies in the United States. They also have some of the highest standards of living and lowest costs of living in the country.
As a society we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
Florida has a 5.5% corporate income tax rate. Tennessee has a 1% flat tax on income earned from interest and dividends, though in 2019, the tax was 2%. Texas has some of the highest property taxes in the U.S. , they are levied at the local level rather than state level.

So none of the state's you listed relies solely on sales taxes.
 

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