NFR Logging a small slice. Am I part of the habitat problem? My chance to do right...or wrong

Gyrfalcon21

Active Member
Logging. To cut or not to cut.

Fishing Site related: Fish/habitat angle. I despise what logging has done to the northwest. And here I am with this situation I inherited, literally. Am I telling myself that if cut/thinned (do not think this little cut or the whole thing is true forest), that a cutting + replant will be great habitat for many decades ahead for the water and creatures?

Here is what fell into our lap. We have some acreage tucked into the coast, been in the family for 70+ years. It is timber/forest..sort of. Have never been there as there is no road to it, not far off a decent sized paved road, however. Mile or two in? Inland maybe 15 miles from the ocean. Cannot build there ever. All I know is that the old growth Cedar and such was taken off/stolen decades (50 years ago?) ago. All that was left was barren 40-ish acres of land. I think it has reseeded itself somewhat pretty well. Have flown over with Google Earth.

We get letters from companies every now and then offering us tiny $ for the land. I talked to one 5 years ago last. Went nowhere. $5k for 40 acres with timber on it? No way. Vultures for sure in that business. (all businesses, am sure).

A couple weeks back another letter comes in and I let it sit, finally I open it. The neighbors next to us on the property up there are a logging company and they are right now logging theirs. They say that we have a small area bordering theirs that they could cut trees up to a creek. I can see from Google Earth the creek might only be seasonal..not sure. They say that our little piece there has what "looks to be mature timber that looks to have significant value."
"If you have been considering harvesting your timber, this might be an inexpensive and excellent time to."

OK, I have made a few bad calls trusting people in smaller business things in life so I am fully prepared to think that unless cleared, most people are out to screw you.
I emailed them last week just to feel it out and they promptly said that they would send a proposal soon, that was Thurs, their forester needed to talk to me as well. Also, they said I should jump on a permit from the DNR asap.

OK. Being that access for me is pretty much zip-they have secured access from the North which must be from a slew of odds and end logging roads, I cannot get in to see. Plus, I have no idea what I am looking at.

I guess just running by folks here to see obvious rookie red flags, see a trap, anything that is typical logging company bs stuff? I checked the company online and they have been in the business decade and half, like all online reviews, they have all perfect then a couple of total clunkers saying to avoid. Like a 4.7/5 on about 15-20 reviews. No BBB info.

Assume the best thing to do is run a independent guy in there and check the property line and see what trees we have overall. Probably an expense I was not ready for.
This is on flat forest land, not headwater stuff, so that would ease my mind to cut. Not bird nesting season. The entire area near is logged in bits and pieces, not too bad. I'd have to read laws on slash burning/replanting. The cost, access to have that done and make sure I do not create a bigger headache than before. Very paranoid that I will miss something and make this a financial and environmental snafu.

Lots of stuff there and thanks if anyone made it this far.

Just a word or two if inspired to do so, thoughts would be fantastic of bigger things to watch out for. My one and only time on logging I think. But this opportunity came up pretty fast, also makes me suspect something odd is up?

Thanks for reading ! PM Is fine, appreciate any thoughts/criticisms

John
 
Last edited:

Gyrfalcon21

Active Member
Thanks to you folks already, been tossing and turning heavily on this topic for a few days now, and researching and learning how fully clueless I am..
 
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Reactions: smc

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
Second the suggestion to contact Dustinchromers. If he doesn't see this thread, I have his off forum name and phone number if you want.

There are a lot of ways to manage forest land to achieve the objectives that suit you. The outfit that contacted you did what many logging companies do, contacting adjacent and nearby timber owners because it serves the efficiency of their own operation. That should not be your reason for doing business with them. They probably just want to clear cut it because that is the most efficient and profitable option for the logging company, but it's also possible to log for specific wildlife habitat objectives if that's what you prefer. Definitely speak to Chromers about this.
 

High&NeverDry

Active Member
From the little I know of the logging industry, the companies themselves are either in the good or bad category. I would be selective on who you use and definitely make sure they are clearing legal timber, have the proper permits and guidance yourself from the DNR.
I wouldn't let anyone clear my land without visually surveying it myself first however! If they can see your land and trees and want to cut it, they can make accommodations for you to access it from their location so you can determine what works best for you.
 

cdnred

Active Member
Hire a timber cruiser type person to value the trees on the property before you do anything.
Don't use the guy your neighbor says to use.
;)
Good idea, get an independant guy that's familar with logging to GO in and look the situation over. First ask what it'll cost to get the survey done, it may cost more then you'd be willing to pay. I'm assuming that because of where the land is situated, you haven't been able to see it first hand. I'd question how they plan to do it, clear cut or selective cutting. What kind of mess will they leave behind when they're done for you to clean up. When loggers go in and do a clear cut, it leaves a big mess behind that I'm sure they'd rather not have to pay to clean up..
 

smc

Active Member
Thanks to you folks already, been tossing and turning heavily on this topic for a few days now, and researching and learning how fully clueless I am..

Some good advise here Gyrfalcon. For sure, I‘d say the 1st thing to do is see the property, and the timber, for yourself. Then you can decide on your next steps. I’m sure in the end that you’ll make an informed decision that is best for you, and your property. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Keep us informed!
 

GAT

Dumbfounded
I'd be keen to know which mill they would be taking the logs. I knew a rabid timber owner who ranted and raved about tree huggers and all the mill jobs they were eliminating … but when it came to him selling the trees from his property he ended up sending them via ship to a mill in Japan !!!

So much for American mill workers.

Like I said, I'd be interested to know where the logs would be milled … just curious.
 
As an alternative approach, you can look at this as a retirement plan. The timber is only going to increase with age, both because the trees will get bigger and the price per board foot will increase. Sit on it until you are ready and sure you need the $$.

If, on the other hand, you don't need the money (that's always possible, I suppose, though it's not true for most folks), consider placing it in a conservation easement. 40 acres is big enough to make a difference in a local ecosystem when it comes to providing habitat for a variety of plants and animals that don't do well in continuous cycles of clearcuts and second growth. A conservation easement will mean that it stays uncut in perpetuity. A pretty nice legacy to leave behind, in my opinion.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Logging. To cut or not to cut.

Fishing Site related: Fish/habitat angle. I despise what logging has done to the northwest. And here I am with this situation I inherited, literally. Am I telling myself that if cut/thinned (do not think this little cut or the whole thing is true forest), that a cutting + replant will be great habitat for many decades ahead for the water and creatures?

Here is what fell into our lap. We have some acreage tucked into the coast, been in the family for 70+ years. It is timber/forest..sort of. Have never been there as there is no road to it, not far off a decent sized paved road, however. Mile or two in? Inland maybe 15 miles from the ocean. Cannot build there ever. All I know is that the old growth Cedar and such was taken off/stolen decades (50 years ago?) ago. All that was left was barren 40-ish acres of land. I think it has reseeded itself somewhat pretty well. Have flown over with Google Earth.

We get letters from companies every now and then offering us tiny $ for the land. I talked to one 5 years ago last. Went nowhere. $5k for 40 acres with timber on it? No way. Vultures for sure in that business. (all businesses, am sure).

A couple weeks back another letter comes in and I let it sit, finally I open it. The neighbors next to us on the property up there are a logging company and they are right now logging theirs. They say that we have a small area bordering theirs that they could cut trees up to a creek. I can see from Google Earth the creek might only be seasonal..not sure. They say that our little piece there has what "looks to be mature timber that looks to have significant value."
"If you have been considering harvesting your timber, this might be an inexpensive and excellent time to."

OK, I have made a few bad calls trusting people in smaller business things in life so I am fully prepared to think that unless cleared, most people are out to screw you.
I emailed them last week just to feel it out and they promptly said that they would send a proposal soon, that was Thurs, their forester needed to talk to me as well. Also, they said I should jump on a permit from the DNR asap.

OK. Being that access for me is pretty much zip-they have secured access from the North which must be from a slew of odds and end logging roads, I cannot get in to see. Plus, I have no idea what I am looking at.

I guess just running by folks here to see obvious rookie red flags, see a trap, anything that is typical logging company bs stuff? I checked the company online and they have been in the business decade and half, like all online reviews, they have all perfect then a couple of total clunkers saying to avoid. Like a 4.7/5 on about 15-20 reviews. No BBB info.

Assume the best thing to do is run a independent guy in there and check the property line and see what trees we have overall. Probably an expense I was not ready for.
This is on flat forest land, not headwater stuff, so that would ease my mind to cut. Not bird nesting season. The entire area near is logged in bits and pieces, not too bad. I'd have to read laws on slash burning/replanting. The cost, access to have that done and make sure I do not create a bigger headache than before. Very paranoid that I will miss something and make this a financial and environmental snafu.

Lots of stuff there and thanks if anyone made it this far.

Just a word or two if inspired to do so, thoughts would be fantastic of bigger things to watch out for. My one and only time on logging I think. But this opportunity came up pretty fast, also makes me suspect something odd is up?

Thanks for reading ! PM Is fine, appreciate any thoughts/criticisms

John

I can get you sorted on this. My casual advice and steerage is free. I want you to understand the process and have control of the destiny of your land more than anything else. You are the steward and should therefore understand all that is involved. Off the top of my head reading the above here are some considerations.

1. Roads are expensive. A two mile road could be in the neighborhood of 100k ranging and depending on multiple factors from the proximity to rock and terrain.

2. Flat ground is shovel logging and cheap by comparison.

3. The timber market is extremely favorable at the present time with volatile times ahead IMHO for reasons that it is an election year (timber normally dives) and impending uncertainty of another lock down style stop of building.

4. You will need to address the stream typing, layout, and valuation. I do all of these things but am in no way soliciting you for the business unless you just had to have me involved and I'm pretty full up at the present time. Again, my educating of you and advice is pro bono 100% and your confidence and understanding the process is paramount. Remember, you own the place. This is literally the easiest time of year to stream type. In fact I could likely have you figuring much of it out on your own. Couple that with a phone call and I can furnish you buffer widths, leave tree requirements, and other considerations. None of this is rocket science but there's a host of rules to abide by as well as stewardship considerations. If you can provide better habitat and still check the box on a rule by being smart all the better.

5. Let me know a bit more about the area with a parcel number via pm and I'll see what I can pull that's really available. I can interpret an air photo with a trained eye and ascertain things that might slip by or go unnoticed to a casual looker.

6. If it's the area I'm thinking it should be know that timber values fluctuate wildly due to species composition, DEFECT, and quantity.

7. Timber valuation is as much as art as it is science. If it were my land I would cruise it then hire a second opinion, perhaps a third. Do not share this valuation with anyone once obtained unless you are NEEDING to use it for negotiating. Even then I would say that it is up to buyer and seller to both do their due diligence. Cruisers are sworn to confidentially with valuations. It is very poor form for a cruiser to share a valuation number with anyone other than the guy paying the bill for said valuation.

8. Timber valuations like surveyors cost considerable coin. If the asset is worth it you definitely want a full scope valuation and a couple opinions don't hurt.

9. There are timber pirates and honest people who will do the right thing. And people deserve to make money for good work. However, not all loggers are created equal so if you don't get warm and fuzzy over a particular individual pay credence to your gut or ask for references. Again multiple opinions and bids. You own the place. You have the asset that loggers want. You are the one who makes the call. Some view the landowner as an obstacle. I would strive for a more cooperative relationship.

All in all it is likely that piggy backing on the current adjacent operation is beneficial. You just want to make sure you are treated fairly and your ground is looked after appropriately. This isn't a tree farm and private sale logging should reflect the difference in both customer care, care for the ground, and maximizing value. I'm available if you have questions or just want to BS about it.
 

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