NFR Covid Vaccines

Status
Not open for further replies.

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
WFF Supporter
I would never recommend making healthcare decisions based on a fishing forum. We fisherman are prone to exaggeration and independent spirit. However.

This is a very watered down explanation of determining reaction versus immune response. The Atlantic has done a fantastic job of covering COVID-19.

Highly recommend this read.

While it has been addressed multiple times over in this thread, differentiating between a “reaction” and an individuals immune response is very important.

An individuals immune response is unique, complex and not necessarily an indicator of neither a vaccines efficacy or perceived deficiency.

A very basic explanation of mRNA vaccines (explained several ways in this thread) is a non-active viral spike protein encapsulated in a lipid (virus dna in fat) is injected into deep muscle tissue. The body absorbs the “fat” and creates a healthy “response.”

The localized inflammation in the arm or “pain” is a by product of the body detecting the lipid as a foreign body and the spike protein as “bad”.

Shot 1 primes the immune system to develop a “response.”

Shot 2 reintroduces the same fat and genetic material. Our immune system detects it and starts to freak out in that it saw this once before and thought it had developed a response.

There is a basic saying in medicine. When you hear hoof beats, think of horses. Not zebras. Meaning, exotic “alternative” theories are just that, exotic.

Unfortunately, the scientific method, a process that takes time, is under the microscope of social media, 24 hour news and sound bites.

Please do get vaccinated. Do not let the virus use your body as a lab for developing variants.

We are all in a unique period of history. How we respond as a community, as a group of individuals blessed by the hard work and sacrifice of generations before us, will dictate the record book. Not political affiliation.
Actually, a mRNA vaccine has the information to make a viral spike protei. It does not contain the viral spike protein itself. The lipid coating facilitates penetration of the mRNA through the cell membrane of immune cells. Once inside, the normal cell machinery (ribosomes -> endoplasmic reticulum -> Golgi apparatus) synthesize the spike protein from the mRNA. All cells "post" a subsample of their synthesized proteins via MHC class I proteins to the surface of their cell membranes where they are "visible" to other immune cells. When a subset of the other immune cells encounter these foreign proteins, they are spurred to activate (attack) and to divide (create more cells that are sensitive to the same protein).
The Atlantic article also does a good job of explaining the localized effects of the innate immune system that may be triggered by the lipid coating or even the mRNA itself.
Steve
Steve
 
Last edited:

Bones

Active Member
I get it. Math is hard for some folks, but I don't judge. I stated 99.98%, and I meant 99.98% (.02% IFR). After being prompted to double check, I learned I was wrong. For me, it's actually closer to 99.99% survivability, 0.01% IFR. Again, that's for my age AND health profile. That said, it does start to creep up pretty quickly around the age of 55. I endorse immunization for older people and those with comorbidities (consult with your physician), but I do not endorse the immunization given to the covid vaccine manufactures from product liability. That's a very negative signal for a product being billed as perfectly safe.
View attachment 278368
Hi Chromer,

Being oppositional to overwhelming data doesn’t necessarily make one a savant.

Not sure what you are trying to state. I can say, it is very obvious if an individual lacks a medical background when trying to make a point.

“but I do not endorse the immunization given to the covid vaccine manufactures from product liability. That's a very negative signal for a product being billed as perfectly safe.”

Huh? This is literally a word salad.
 

Bones

Active Member
Actually, a mRNA vaccine has the information to make a viral spike protei. It does not contain the viral spike protein itself. The lipid coating facilitates penetration of the mRNA through the cell membrane of immune cells. Once inside, the normal cell machinery (ribosomes -> endoplasmic reticulum -> Golgi apparatus) synthesize the spike protein from the mRNA. All cells "post" a subsample of the proteins via MHC class I proteins that they make on the surface of their cell membranes where they are "visible" to other immune cells. When these a subset of the other immune cells encounter these foreign proteins, they are spurred to activate (attack) and to divide (create more cells sensitive to the same protein).
The Atlantic article also does a good job of explaining the localized effects of the innate immune system that may be triggered by the lipid coating or even the mRNA itself.
Steve
Steve

Thank you Steve. I hadn’t hit edit yet. I’m super slow on a phone and was thinking how to distill the process uncomplicated terms including which biological steps to include.
 
Last edited:

Chromer J

Active Member
Hi Chromer,

Being oppositional to overwhelming data doesn’t necessarily make one a savant.

Not sure what you are trying to state. I can say, it is very obvious if an individual lacks a medical background when trying to make a point.

“but I do not endorse the immunization given to the covid vaccine manufactures from product liability. That's a very negative signal for a product being billed as perfectly safe.”

Huh? This is literally a word salad.
Maybe I was communicating in English, and you were listening in word salad.
 

Bones

Active Member
Maybe I was communicating in English, and you were listening in word salad.
I’m going to step out of the thread. I’d hope moderators are able to keep on track. It’s quite clear you either do not know what you are talking about or are just looking to argue.
 

Canuck from Kansas

WFF Supporter
Maybe I was communicating in English, and you were listening in word salad.

Again, Chromer J, got part of the story right, but very misleading - this protection for vaccine manufacturers goes back to 1988

According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, "No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."

A somewhat longer story short, the PREP Act created the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP), which provides benefits to people who claim that they suffered injuries from vaccines under emergency authorization.

Upshot, there is a mechanism in place for compensation.

Edit: I also notice Mr. Chromer J has not provided any credentials that qualify him to "endorse", or not "endorse", any medical treatment.

Cheers
 
Last edited:

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
WFF Supporter
Thank you Steve. I hadn’t hit edit yet. I’m super slow on a phone and was thinking how to distill the process uncomplicated terms including which biological steps to include.
Hi Bones,
The essence was there for sure.
Steve
 

surfnfish

Active Member
Some of us are old enough to remember outbreaks of polio, yellow fever, diptheria, rheumatic fever, pellagra, smallpox and cholera...effective vaccines have provided the greatest improvement in quality of life for billions around the globe.
With vaccine deniers, it's seems less about accepting the science and more about adherence to the 'government bad' mantra that is their totem. Which tends to the ironic considering many deniers are dependent on MediCare and Social Security.
Unfortunately, the large number of deniers means our nation will likely never reach true herd immunity as the virus continues to spread among the non immunized, who will in turn infect the 5% of vaccine recipients the vaccine does not protect. And they are the real losers in this.
 

Sportsman

Active Member
That's exactly why the anti- vaxxers will continue the trump virus into next year. They don't care: they have Tony Spells, 'God'' and prayers on their side. I stated in a prior thread that I wouldn't wish covid on my worst enemy, but I never considered idiots my worst enemy. Now I hope they get sicker than dogs...or worse... before they screw it up for the majority of people. But the first amendment protects idiots and even let's them vote.
 

udiablo

Active Member
Interesting

I know of ZERO friends, co-workers, relatives, that are over 45 (I am over 65), that haven't been vaccinated yet. But I know of many younger that are eligible and have not.

Could these young "deniers" be the end product of left-leaning public schools? Or is there some other dreamed up reason for not getting vaccinated?

Could it be that some are just leery of anything that is controlled by, or encouraged by the government?

Your thoughts?
 

East Coaster

Active Member
This thread started as a way to inform people about the vaccine and eligibility/opportunities to get it (thanks @Stonefish). While it has drifted at times towards a political discussion, many folks have restrained from that and steered it back on track. Let’s please keep it to a civil discussion about the science, about people’s direct experience, and about how to find a way to get a shot if desired, so it doesn’t get locked down and can continue to be a valuable resource to the readers. Thanks in advance.
 

Charles Sullivan

Active Member
Interesting

I know of ZERO friends, co-workers, relatives, that are over 45 (I am over 65), that haven't been vaccinated yet. But I know of many younger that are eligible and have not.

Could these young "deniers" be the end product of left-leaning public schools? Or is there some other dreamed up reason for not getting vaccinated?

Could it be that some are just leery of anything that is controlled by, or encouraged by the government?

Your thoughts?
Statistically it appears Republican men have shown the most vaccine hesitancy. I know my lefty 16 yr old daughter jumped at the chance to get hers. Same with the younger people at my office.
Data is unlikely to support your hypothesis in my opinion. Don't let that stop you though.

Go sox,
cds
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Support WFF | Remove the Ads

Support WFF by upgrading your account. Site supporters benefits include no ads and access to some additional features, few now, more in the works. Info

Latest posts

Top