derogatory fly names...

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Irafly

Indi Ira
WFF Supporter
Yea you baited the hook and I bit.....you seem like the kind that likes to poke the bear....thats on me for responding......since ur asking about my race.....are u a college prof at a liberal arts school?

Oh, you bit hard and proved my point. Yeah, I don’t mind poking the bear, especially when it needs poking.

I’ll answer your question when you answer mine. But I’ll tell you why I’m asking. I’ve found that white middle aged males tend to “express” harder their desire to keep things the way they are, because they still benefit the most from the system. I’m a white middle aged man and I have been and will likely continue to be part of the problem. Not on purpose, but out of ignorance. When that ignorance is pointed out to me, I’m going to work hard to change.
 

BC33

Active Member
I'm afraid to go fishing now. I don't know the names of any of the flies in my boxes. What if someone sees them and tells me what a prick I am for using a "Sexy Dungeon" or watch them faint dead away when they hold one up and declare it to be a "Pheasant Tail Nymph" or a "Prince Nymph" Please don't let them find my box of "Boobie Flies"!

I just think of them in terms of Da Black One, Da Brown One, Da Red One, Da Yellow One, Da White One Da Pink One etc. etc. Thanks to this thread I now know how racist that is.

And I can't even imagine what folks might think about Da Black and Blue One!

The game warden asked me if my flies were pinched? I told him hell no I paid for every one of them!

I'm going to spend the rest of my day and make labels for all my flies just using numbers. Stopping of course at 68.
This is the the post of the thread! I love it
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
I find it interesting that people get so offended by people taking offense to things. Those of you unwilling to listen or consider the point of view of those speaking up will in the end, likely be on the wrong side of history. Countless examples of this exist. Continue your fight for freedom of speech, rail against “cancel culture” and continue playing guardian angel to words and phrases while keeping your blinders on to the big picture which in the end has nothing to do with words or fly names. The flippant use of that type of terminology is just symptom of real issues marginalized groups have faced for centuries.

Think about this. Fly fishing has been around a long time. There are flies that have been tied in the past and given racists monikers. Only top tier assholes would continue to call those flies their given name. It’s ok to evolve people....
Yes. But we MUST let those people be what they are. I'll tolerate a " top tier asshole" more than I'll tolerate someone far worse, a censor.

Liberty is the biggest picture of all..
 

BC33

Active Member
Oh, you bit hard and proved my point. Yeah, I don’t mind poking the bear, especially when it needs poking.

I’ll answer your question when you answer mine. But I’ll tell you why I’m asking. I’ve found that white middle aged males tend to “express” harder their desire to keep things the way they are, because they still benefit the most from the system. I’m a white middle aged man and I have been and will likely continue to be part of the problem. Not on purpose, but out of ignorance. When that ignorance is pointed out to me, I’m going to work hard to change.
Wow you are so smart. Thank you for trying to educate me. I truly didn't see how ignorant I was. This thread has made me see the error of my ways. My fragility will be replaced with guilt. I will pass that guilt onto my spawn. We will go to the river together, and God willing (will I be able to say that?) not offend anyone.
 

Irafly

Indi Ira
WFF Supporter
Wow you are so smart. Thank you for trying to educate me. I truly didn't see how ignorant I was. This thread has made me see the error of my ways. My fragility will be replaced with guilt. I will pass that guilt onto my spawn. We will go to the river together, and God willing (will I be able to say that?) not offend anyone.

Why shouldn’t you feel a little guilt? Why not pass it on a little. I feel it, because I’m not afraid to feel it. Why are you still afraid to own it?

You may act sarcastic now, but regardless, this thread has wheedled its way into your thoughts and although you rail against it you will think differently now about the culture. If you fight it though, what kind of person does that make you?
 

BC33

Active Member
Oh and btw, ira, I have friends of color, and friends who came from other countries, who think more like I do, than you. Not everyone who has a different approach than what far left is shoving down our throats, is a country bumpkin white, cis male.
 

BC33

Active Member
Why shouldn’t you feel a little guilt? Why not pass it on a little. I feel it, because I’m not afraid to feel it. Why are you still afraid to own it?

You may act sarcastic now, but regardless, this thread has wheedled its way into your thoughts and although you rail against it you will think differently now about the culture. If you fight it though, what kind of person does that make you?
Ok.....shrink who happens to be very liberal?
 

hookedonthefly

Active Member
Oh and btw, ira, I have friends of color, and friends who came from other countries, who think more like I do, than you. Not everyone who has a different approach than what far left is shoving down our throats, is a country bumpkin white, cis male.
Me as well on friends from many different places and all walks of life. My gosh, some of them are even people of color. Peace, Ed
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
I don’t think anyone is calling Kelly Galloup a bad person. Those names are a product of the cultural norms he grew up with and our society has moved on from. My interpretation of the article....the ask so to speak is to be considerate of this issue go forward. Not let’s boycott Kelly Galloup.

I heard there was a protest outside the Slide Inn Flyshop. We going to burn it down. Bring me the head of Kelly Galloup! Then and only then will the fly bin be free of micro aggressions and misogyny!

My take away from this solidifies what I already practice. I think it's healthy to instill a sense of real worth and value in young ladies that goes beyond appearance. Instill confidence not weakness. We cannot manicure the golf course of life to be free of hazards so be honest about said hazards. Let them know some men can be pigs sometimes. However, pigs are as smart as dogs and can be trained. Therefore you should not reward a pig or a dog for bad behaviour ever. This is the oldest form of conditioning known to man and beast. Pavlov coined it but it's been around far longer. People should be armed with confidence, intelligence, and knowledge. They will not have the world sanitised to a perfect facade of itself. That's not realistic and not human as humans are flawed with a great many motivations that sometimes fall out of the bounds of acceptability. I don't think going around offending women or anyone else is cool. But to pretend something doesn't exist and sanitising everything you will get an ill equipped generation of victims. I'm surrounded by strong women both from very young on up to matriarch status. Their take on this is: "I'd file that fly name crap on the who gives a shit channel. Half of those names aren't even offensive. I'll name one after a small or limp penis in kind if I was confronted by an idiot trying to offend me with a name. Men can be pigs, what else is new." The above quotations paraphrased from actual discussion

To add to this I've always felt those were dumb fly names. Equally as dumb is Jay stating he is crying as he's writing this article. Don't cry man, be an effective writer and convince me with something other than your useless emotion of which I care secondary or not at all in comparison to your ideas. This is the arena of ideas in which we gladiate with, not tears. As a writer your tears betray a dull sword of sympathy and ineffective editorial combat technique. This is nothing more than virtue signalling. This is more about Jay wanting you to know he's woke than actually espousing any real philosophical points of merit, consideration and solutions. He's calling everyone out? Sit down you overgrown child. There is an issue to discuss here but tears and Trump aren't part of it. Granted Trump could have been artfully woven in as an example with his locker room worthy diatribe of disrespect and disgust but it was tacked on at the end as if the author had a word minimum to hit and simply was crying too much to formulate any real points of logic and discourse. So while more people than ever might read a Jay Nichols article it's perhaps an example of his weakest least thought out work. This should not however take away from his excellent documentation on tidewater Chinook fishing. Excellent insights and Intel in there. Perhaps he writes these articles after the tears of a lost fish have dried and his thoughts are collected.
 

Nick Clayton

WFF Supporter
. There is one word that offends her; and, that word has been deleted from my vocabulary. Peace, Ed


This part of your comment is interesting. So if your wife finds a word offensive, you simply remove it from your vocabulary. So clearly you are capable of understanding that something you say could be offensive to a woman, and taking the simple, respectful step to not use that word. But if other women find something offensive, then what? You just don't care?

If your wife truly found "Sex dungeon" as a fly name offensive,, would you continue to use it? Your sense of humor isn't going to change....unless your wife, a woman, finds something offensive in which case you will change?

Seems like there's a pretty obvious point in there.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
The "top tier assholes" are typically the ones who need the censors. Ying and yang.

I disagree. Top tier assholes and other assholes should be given a megaphone. This way they can broadcast who and what they are and we all can then know who the assholes are. Assholes in the open aren't dangerous. Assholes laying in wait silent or silenced are the ones that are an actual danger to society. All censorship does is push radical bad ideas underground. I personally want to know if my neighbor is an asshole. Then I know what I'm dealing with.
 
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