Wildfire Smoke maybe worse than we thought!

Canuck from Kansas

WFF Supporter
However, pragmatic people like Cliff Mass point out that the uncertainty is too high to make accurate predictions...this is why Florida is not underwater, as predicted.

Really?

analysis-sea-level-rise-is-combining-with-other-factors-regularly-flood-miami

"The rate of sea-level rise has increased from the 19th century to the 20th, and for the past 20 years the rate of global sea-level rise has been about 80% faster than the best estimate of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Third Assessment Re port released only a few years ago." (my bold) from:




I could go on...

cheers
 

girlfisher

Active Member
Funny, I here this same phrasing used to discredit meteorologist who question the climate change narrative that uses a weather event to validate climate change. Global warming - climate change, now weather weirding. Adjusting the description to fit the weather, but remember there is a difference between weather and climate change.
We are forecasted to get 3 feet of snow here on the front range of Colorado this weekend, and can guarantee that some will attribute it to climate change. Same thing happened in Colorado in March of 1984, and it was the best powder day this kid ever had. That's coming from a guy that grew up skiing on the wasatch front of Utah.
Snorkel Up my friends!
I am very happy that you are getting the snow. I suspect that this is a somewhat normal "weather" event considering time of year and location. Nothing like the extended, abnormal, cold "period of time" that hit Texas.

My hope is that this snow will help offset wild fires in your area this summer and you and yours will not have to worry about the dangers of inhalation pointed out in the OP.
 

longputt

Active Member
Really?

analysis-sea-level-rise-is-combining-with-other-factors-regularly-flood-miami

"The rate of sea-level rise has increased from the 19th century to the 20th, and for the past 20 years the rate of global sea-level rise has been about 80% faster than the best estimate of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Third Assessment Re port released only a few years ago." (my bold) from:




I could go on...

cheers
The UN predictions are based on manipulated erroneous data...in fact it might be the worst of all. Be sure and look into the sources...to me it's a tired subject or I'd send you the reports.

I don't want to argue about details but predictions of FL underwater in 2012 based on erroneous data destroy the climate change argument.

We all agree that improving our climate is a good idea but when people make ridiculous projections it really hurts our future.
 

Swimmy

Practice your craft.
WFF Supporter
The Ocean levels are rising but Obama recently spent $12 mil on waterfront property. Guess he's not too concerned about it.
JSDFwlvf_o.gif
 

Canuck from Kansas

WFF Supporter
The UN predictions are based on manipulated erroneous data...in fact it might be the worst of all. Be sure and look into the sources...to me it's a tired subject or I'd send you the reports.

I don't want to argue about details but predictions of FL underwater in 2012 based on erroneous data destroy the climate change argument.

We all agree that improving our climate is a good idea but when people make ridiculous projections it really hurts our future.
Ahh, manipulated data - perhaps you could send me the report, or a link, - if you are referring to the 2013 leaked draft report, that is bogus, it was a draft, not the final report - there are a lot of other issues with trying to use that draft report to challenge the IPCC and climate change in general.

I cannot find an IPCC report that predicted Florida would be under water by 2012. The current rate of sea level rise and flooding in Florida are ahead of the IPCC predictions.

Most IPCC predictions have actually been pretty accurate:



cheers
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
A little clarification on Climate Change becoming a buzz word. Climate Change was the term used by President Bush 2's lawyers when they heavily redacted NASA Scientist, James Hansen's diligent work.

Cliff Mass preaches weather and not climate. No cherry-picking, as you put it, is necessary to understand the difference between weather and climate.

So Cliff Mass isn't allowed to weigh in on climate change even though he's likely the most accurate weather man I know of with a vast knowledge of metrological concepts but a school girl from Sweden is an expert and gets full credibility, a platform, and revered as a prophetic deity on the subject? And yes I fully understand the difference between weather and long term climate trends and change so spare me that lecture. The issues is so does Cliff. He has been frequently critical of folks calling local weather events and extreme weather the results of climate change. This has caused him to be ostracised by the true believers. Either way his weather reports are solid and I'll take him as a reputable source. And by the way, he is not a climate change non believer, he merely just doesn't believe any freak weather event is always climate change. He's discerning and critically thinking. Speaking of critical. He's also been critical of the Paris Accord for not having any teeth, sound familiar. More people should try it, the thinking part. I really wish it would catch on as much as say, the flat earth idea that is sweeping the globe.
 
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girlfisher

Active Member
I have often wondered why Cliff Mass has been a poster boy for the Climate Change contrarians. My quote said he preaches weather and is not an expert in the filed of climate. It seems he also weighs in on other topics for which he knows little to nothing about.

On his personal blog on August 5, 2020, Mass likened the persistent riots and vandalism in downtown Seattle months after the George Floyd Protests to Kristallnacht, calling photos of the damage "eerily similar to those of 80 years ago." He subsequently defended the comparison in the comments to that entry. The next day, KNKX announced that it would stop airing Weather with Cliff Mass effective immediately citing "offensive and inaccurate" rhetoric in that personal blog post. Mass temporarily removed the words "Kristallnacht" and "Brownshirts" from his post, describing the passage that contained them as "a source of distraction to some," before restoring them.

Mass's so-called, scientific approach to understanding and communicating the risks associated with global warming often result in public apathy and are often used by climate change deniers to bolster their claims.

Cliff Mass is not a climate denier, but rather a dangerous new breed of climate skeptic who will constantly downplay the importance and severity of global warming. As acceptance of climate science and basic global warming literacy grows, this sort of skepticism is what climate deniers will look to as kind of a next frontier.

I thank you for bringing Cliff Mass up again. I know understand his appeal to so many on this forum. Oh, and I am glad you understand the difference between Climate and Weather because a lot of Climate Change Deniers do not.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
I have often wondered why Cliff Mass has been a poster boy for the Climate Change contrarians. My quote said he preaches weather and is not an expert in the filed of climate. It seems he also weighs in on other topics for which he knows little to nothing about.

On his personal blog on August 5, 2020, Mass likened the persistent riots and vandalism in downtown Seattle months after the George Floyd Protests to Kristallnacht, calling photos of the damage "eerily similar to those of 80 years ago." He subsequently defended the comparison in the comments to that entry. The next day, KNKX announced that it would stop airing Weather with Cliff Mass effective immediately citing "offensive and inaccurate" rhetoric in that personal blog post. Mass temporarily removed the words "Kristallnacht" and "Brownshirts" from his post, describing the passage that contained them as "a source of distraction to some," before restoring them.

Mass's so-called, scientific approach to understanding and communicating the risks associated with global warming often result in public apathy and are often used by climate change deniers to bolster their claims.

Cliff Mass is not a climate denier, but rather a dangerous new breed of climate skeptic who will constantly downplay the importance and severity of global warming. As acceptance of climate science and basic global warming literacy grows, this sort of skepticism is what climate deniers will look to as kind of a next frontier.

I thank you for bringing Cliff Mass up again. I know understand his appeal to so many on this forum. Oh, and I am glad you understand the difference between Climate and Weather because a lot of Climate Change Deniers do not.

I didn't know all that. I had no idea he weighed in on the protests ect and frankly find it uninteresting, unimportant, and unrelated. I do find it interesting that his expertise in his field of study is now discount junk science since he has an opinion on social unrest in Seattle.

His appeal to me is purely his ability to make weather predictions and model events on his page despite your inference. His forecasts are very accurate and he generally provides some interesting insight. As a kayaker when I hear Cliff say "atmospheric river" I get all kinds of stoked cause I know we are getting some water. I didn't know he was out of line and not adhering to the thought police of Seattle broadcasters and luminaries. It must be tough to stay in line with all that tolerance for alternative viewpoints going on up there. At least we still have Hollywood actors to rely on for good solid scientific rigor rather than so called pseudo science practiced by quack meteorologists.

Lastly, do not put words in my mouth as to me being a climate change denier. If you were paying attention you would know that's definitely untrue. I don't put words in your mouth and I view the practice to do so as a last ditch effort by someone out of tools in their box of logic and debate. I'm aware it is your attempt at insult. Yet another dull tool to ply when all else has failed. And to use insult as a parting pot shot, well that's pretty tacky in any setting.
 

girlfisher

Active Member
I didn't know all that. I had no idea he weighed in on the protests ect and frankly find it uninteresting, unimportant, and unrelated. I do find it interesting that his expertise in his field of study is now discount junk science since he has an opinion on social unrest in Seattle.

His appeal to me is purely his ability to make weather predictions and model events on his page despite your inference. His forecasts are very accurate and he generally provides some interesting insight. As a kayaker when I hear Cliff say "atmospheric river" I get all kinds of stoked cause I know we are getting some water. I didn't know he was out of line and not adhering to the thought police of Seattle broadcasters and luminaries. It must be tough to stay in line with all that tolerance for alternative viewpoints going on up there. At least we still have Hollywood actors to rely on for good solid scientific rigor rather than so called pseudo science practiced by quack meteorologists.

Lastly, do not put words in my mouth as to me being a climate change denier. If you were paying attention you would know that's definitely untrue. I don't put words in your mouth and I view the practice to do so as a last ditch effort by someone out of tools in their box of logic and debate. I'm aware it is your attempt at insult. Yet another dull tool to ply when all else has failed. And to use insult as a parting pot shot, well that's pretty tacky in any setting.
Please point out where I specifically called you a Climate Change denier. You need only look closely at your final paragraph for insults. This is your manipulative way of retaliation after finding it hard to accept the truth about Cliff Mass. Up until this thread I have found your debates to be civil and thoughtful. Now you resort to attacking the poster instead of the topic. This is a tactic I find often on this forum from those who simply run out of fuel.
 

long_rod_silvers

WFF Supporter
Oh, and I am glad you understand the difference between Climate and Weather because a lot of Climate Change Deniers do not.
A lot of people don't understand the difference between climate and weather. Who knows, maybe yourself included. The way you insinuated in an earlier post that the weather in Texas wasn't just that, but instead Climate. Not too sure you understand it. Wait, are you a climate denier!???
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Please point out where I specifically called you a Climate Change denier. You need only look closely at your final paragraph for insults. This is your manipulative way of retaliation after finding it hard to accept the truth about Cliff Mass. Up until this thread I have found your debates to be civil and thoughtful. Now you resort to attacking the poster instead of the topic. This is a tactic I find often on this forum from those who simply run out of fuel.


I know a veiled insult when I see one and won't play games about "specifically". Lots of them are preceded by Oh, by the way. You know the score. So do I. Let's not beat around the bush. I take no pleasure in discourteous discourse, even when I'm the one dishing it out. Let's both acknowledge it and our part in it and move on. I hold no ill will but I'll call it as I see it and I've got plenty of fuel in the Safari tank so let's keep our eye on the issue at hand.

In that spirit I am trying to figure out this difficult truth about Cliff Mass. What is this? Is it his social commentary? I'll just say it again. I don't care what the man thinks politically or socially. Is it him saying climate is changing but all may not be urgent, lost and sky falling ect? I'm honestly perplexed how someone with expertise is written off so quickly when they don't fall exactly lock step with the popular opinion. And where is that divergence. The man says flat out the Paris Accord doesn't address the issues with teeth. Where is the mass purging of Mass thought coming from. I'm not asking this to be cute or coy. This is a genuine inquiry.
 

girlfisher

Active Member
A lot of people don't understand the difference between climate and weather. Who knows, maybe yourself included. The way you insinuated in an earlier post that the weather in Texas wasn't just that, but instead Climate. Not too sure you understand it. Wait, are you a climate denier!???
Not sure what you are referring to but assume this; I suspect that this is a somewhat normal "weather" event considering time of year and location. Nothing like the extended, abnormal, cold "period of time" that hit Texas

I do believe that the abnormal, cold "period of time"experienced by Texas was climate change induced and I stand by that.
 

girlfisher

Active Member
I know a veiled insult when I see one and won't play games about "specifically". Lots of them are preceded by Oh, by the way. You know the score. So do I. Let's not beat around the bush. I take no pleasure in discourteous discourse, even when I'm the one dishing it out. Let's both acknowledge it and our part in it and move on. I hold no ill will but I'll call it as I see it and I've got plenty of fuel in the Safari tank so let's keep our eye on the issue at hand.

In that spirit I am trying to figure out this difficult truth about Cliff Mass. What is this? Is it his social commentary? I'll just say it again. I don't care what the man thinks politically or socially. Is it him saying climate is changing but all may not be urgent, lost and sky falling ect? I'm honestly perplexed how someone with expertise is written off so quickly when they don't fall exactly lock step with the popular opinion. And where is that divergence. The man says flat out the Paris Accord doesn't address the issues with teeth. Where is the mass purging of Mass thought coming from. I'm not asking this to be cute or coy. This is a genuine inquiry.
You do remember this; "More people should try it, the thinking part. I really wish it would catch on as much as say, the flat earth idea that is sweeping the globe".

I too recognize demeaning comments and will respond and defend just like anyone else.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
You do remember this; "More people should try it, the thinking part. I really wish it would catch on as much as say, the flat earth idea that is sweeping the globe".

I too recognize demeaning comments and will respond and defend just like anyone else.

That was not directed at you in all honesty on my word and more a blanket statement on the modern state of mankind in general these days reacting without digesting sensational news. I'm starting to understand how this devolved and how you might take the statement personally. Not my intent.
 

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