Is my chironomid on the bottom?

jwg

Active Member
I know how to do the clamps thing, but that gets me the right depth right at the boat, not where I cast to.

I use a tear drop shaped indicator, and a tungsten bead mini leach which should tip up the indicator to vertical, but the stiffness and weight of the tapered leader keeps it tipped over on its side regardless.

Is that why there have been threads about leaders for indicator fishing, and perhaps for using a section of floppy braid?

I see to recall something about leader designs from BC.

Takes at the secret east side lake in March have sometimes been super subtle, so I could stand to up my game regard to being cofident my terminal chironomid is suspended, and so that the indicator has maximum freedom to be responsive

@Irafly @Buzzy @troutpocket @Starman77
Sorry if I have left some experts out !

Jay
 

cabezon

Sculpin Enterprises
WFF Supporter
I know how to do the clamps thing, but that gets me the right depth right at the boat, not where I cast to.

I use a tear drop shaped indicator, and a tungsten bead mini leach which should tip up the indicator to vertical, but the stiffness and weight of the tapered leader keeps it tipped over on its side regardless.

Is that why there have been threads about leaders for indicator fishing, and perhaps for using a section of floppy braid?

I see to recall something about leader designs from BC.

Takes at the secret east side lake in March have sometimes been super subtle, so I could stand to up my game regard to being cofident my terminal chironomid is suspended, and so that the indicator has maximum freedom to be responsive

@Irafly @Buzzy @troutpocket @Starman77
Sorry if I have left some experts out !

Jay
Hi Jay,
Position your boat over the spot where you want to fish and set the depth. Then, move to your casting location. You are fishing for cruising trout and in a minute or two, any "disturbance" from your positioning over your casting location will have long since dissipated.
Steve
 

Buzzy

Active Member
I know how to do the clamps thing, but that gets me the right depth right at the boat, not where I cast to.

I use a tear drop shaped indicator, and a tungsten bead mini leach which should tip up the indicator to vertical, but the stiffness and weight of the tapered leader keeps it tipped over on its side regardless.

Is that why there have been threads about leaders for indicator fishing, and perhaps for using a section of floppy braid?

I see to recall something about leader designs from BC.

Takes at the secret east side lake in March have sometimes been super subtle, so I could stand to up my game regard to being cofident my terminal chironomid is suspended, and so that the indicator has maximum freedom to be responsive

@Irafly @Buzzy @troutpocket @Starman77
Sorry if I have left some experts out !

Jay
I've watched @troutpocket fish his homespun leaders (come on Rod, a refresher, please) - I do think there's something to your concern about stiff leaders, kinks in leaders.

Going to drown a few midges and perhaps snails tomorrow, deep.
 

jwg

Active Member
Opening week water was a bit green and the one fish I sampled,only had daphnia.

Two days ago the water was clearer, and a sampling had medium (by WA standards, not BC) black pupa along w the daphnia.

My blob got no love.

J
 

troutpocket

Active Member
My indicator leader formula for up to 20’ deep is really easy. 18” of 12lb maxima (ultragreen) for the butt section, 8-15’ of 6lb maxima UG for the main section (match the max depth you expect to fish), then 3’ of 3x fluoro tippet to the first fly. Add 2’ of 3x tippet tied to the eye of the top bug to hang a second bug. Join the mono sections with a double surgeons knot and the mono-to-fluoro with a triple surgeons. I use tear drop slip indicators and don’t forget to thread on the indicator before you tie on a fly. Hope this is helpful.

Like @cabezon said, I check the area I plan to fish for exact depth then move away and cast back to the target.
 

Irafly

Indi Ira
WFF Supporter
I don’t have much to add other than I don’t want my indicator to sit straight up and down. I want it a bit on the side, so that I can see the subtle takes more easily. In fact in some cases, your takes will actually cause your indicator to move up versus down. When a fish takes your fly in, that can release pressure on the indicator causing the bottom portion to relax and the top black peg will lay over a bit. Thus the term indicator versus bobber.

As for your depth exactness, midge pupae will hover around that foot off the bottom zone for up to a day or more before rising up in the water column to hatch, that is why it is so often a good place to fish, but it is not an exact science. Others have mentioned checking your depth where you plan to fish and then moving away, and that works great, but so does resetting if you hit bottom :)
 
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bchapman

Active Member
In my view, tapered leaders are not needed, and are even counterproductive for indicator fishing - especially for stillwaters.

I suggest you buy a spool of regular fluorocarbon fishing line (8, 10 or 12 lb). Run that from your fly line to your swivel (or surgeon’s knot if you don’t use a swivel). The length depends on how deep you want to fish. Then use your good fluorocarbon tippet for the last 2’-3’.

A tapered leader might help with casting (how far do you need to cast an indicator rig anyway?), but it’s not worth how it screws up setting the indicator/depth. You want the leader hanging straight down from the indicator - or, as straight as you can get it. Toward the butt end, tapered leader will tend to lay out straight. Plus, it kinks.

One caveat, the fluorocarbon can cut into the flyline’s loop. Which is the only argument I can think of for using a tapered leader. But, there are ways to compensate for that.

Cheers!

Brad
 

Irafly

Indi Ira
WFF Supporter
In my view, tapered leaders are not needed, and are even counterproductive for indicator fishing - especially for stillwaters.

I suggest you buy a spool of regular fluorocarbon fishing line (8, 10 or 12 lb). Run that from your fly line to your swivel (or surgeon’s knot if you don’t use a swivel). The length depends on how deep you want to fish. Then use your good fluorocarbon tippet for the last 2’-3’.

A tapered leader might help with casting (how far do you need to cast an indicator rig anyway?), but it’s not worth how it screws up setting the indicator/depth. You want the leader hanging straight down from the indicator - or, as straight as you can get it. Toward the butt end, tapered leader will tend to lay out straight. Plus, it kinks.

One caveat, the fluorocarbon can cut into the flyline’s loop. Which is the only argument I can think of for using a tapered leader. But, there are ways to compensate for that.

Cheers!

Brad


I still use tapered leaders for many reasons in my mid set ups, but to each there own. Castability is very important to me and yes in many cases you don’t have to cast far to catch fish, but I like it as one more tool in my quiver. The benefits of not being able to cast far outweigh for me any of the hang issues.

I also find that tapered leaders don’t tangle as much and if they do tangle for me they are far easier to untangle.

To help with keeping a tight connection to my indicator, I tend to use at least one fly that is really heavy.

Lastly, kinks do prevent really true hanging, but they do let me know where to reset after my indicator reaches that point where it pops when a frog farts but I’m too lazy to reset :)
 

bchapman

Active Member
Castability is very important to me and yes in many cases you don’t have to cast far to catch fish, but I like it as one more tool in my quiver. The benefits of not being able to cast far outweigh for me any of the hang issues...
 
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bchapman

Active Member
I like to cast my rigs too. I sometimes even focus more on distance than results - gives me something to do when I’m not catching :)

What I find is that with a more open loop and some practice, up to 60’ is reasonably doable without a tapered leader. Results may vary.

One thing I’ll note, due to simple geometry, the deeper I’m fishing the shorter I’m willing to cast. Too far away and too deep and the right angle is very difficult to take up to get tension on your line.
 

jwg

Active Member
I found some info where braid was used in the indicatoring leader because it does not kink and hangs straight .

I’ll try it on one of my rods and see.

Thanks for all the replies

Jay
 

bchapman

Active Member
I found some info where braid was used in the indicatoring leader because it does not kink and hangs straight .

I’ll try it on one of my rods and see.

Thanks for all the replies

Jay
I'm interested to hear your experience. I've heard this tangles outrageously and casts poorly... but I've never bothered to try it myself.
 

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