Youtube Spot Burner

D3Smartie

Active Member
Its unfortunate and has been an issue since the days of Hunting and Fishing news and before. i remember when they highlighted my favorite duck hunting spot. That one hurt and became a zoo overnight.

The reality is that a secret is only a secret in the mind of the one keeping it. When there is no attachment or investment then there is no care whether they burn a spot or share the info.

Frankly it is why i dont share as much as i used to and have a much different view of those that do these days. In the end it is all about promotion. Whether you're a youtuber, guide, or just want the credit. People arent sharing unless they are getting something from it. As @JayB said, the burned hand teaches best.

Best advice for you is to ignore it, work around it, and realize that while someone can burn a spot, they cant replicate your knowledge of it, and most will never try it long enough to be successful. Play the long game.
 

MGTom

Living at the place of many waters
WFF Supporter
Were they hot-spotting?
WFF Reminising
Or the info we were recalling in this thread. I don't know. It's just different. I've used the web for work quite a bit, but am kinda new to this whole social media thing. I don't fb or whatever.
But I think going along with the low-hole thread people are different. As kids we were forced to watch the cast, step, repeat thing. And you waited to take your turn to get in on top. And you were admonished in front of everybody if you didn't reel in when somebody got a fish. Then you approach the run with one guy the same way. There are things to learn to be socially acceptable, like lining up at the theater. I can see where the web bypasses all that.
 

Brian Miller

Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout
WFF Supporter
IMO yes, also keep in mind that youtube has 2.3 billion users
How many of those 2.3B users are going to travel from around the globe to fish "my" creek?

For full disclosure, I'm very pleased that I have not found my "Curtis Creeks" mentioned in any book, on YT, * FB, and especially this forum(!).
Curtis Creek 2.jpg
 
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jreising326

Active Member
Well it seems pretty clear there are 2 sides to this discussion. I find myself wondering if age and/or number of years invested is part of the equation. I don't want to bag on Millennials, but I guess maybe I just did. A lot of us started fishing years before there was an internet, and the internet was around for decades before jackasses started finding ways to monetize it. I just feel strongly Fly Fishing is one arena that shouldn't be abused, because the quality of the fisheries is at stake.

Also to clear up any misunderstandings, the place I'm talking about are not secret. Most are classic Trout and Andrandomous Streams that are found in bookshops. The difference is in this case someone is being overly specific, with what I think is clear intention, of driving Angler Traffic to these exact streams and spots. There are many other spots I can fish, so it's not like I think I own those spots, but I think a lot of other people probably do feel that way.

Deep inside I feel like nothing good can come from what he is doing. Nothing good happens after midnight. One of the streams he posted on was extremely crowded last year due to Covid, because access is so easy. I've fished that stream for 25 years, I've never seen anything like it. There were anglers parked in every publicly known access spot, and the only campground open was full every weekend. I'm trying to teach my 16 year old son to Fly Fish, and catch rates are dropping fast due to angler pressure. Salmon and Steelhead runs have been depleted and consistently dropping too.

Some of the local guides are giving up on certain streams because guides are coming into town and setting up shop to make a quick buck. I don't mind that as much as the Social Media Influencer Cash Grabbing Deep Fake "Flyfisher" Shill. At least the guide has put the time and investment into honing his skills and knowledge of the fishery.

However when a guy hooks a decent sized Wild Trout on one of these Videos and starts telling his buddy it's Foul Hooked and he's having difficulty landing it because he's never had a wild fish that size on before, I don't think that belongs on Youtube. Sorry, pay your dues first.
 

Driftless Dan

Driftless Dan
WFF Supporter
IMHO it is extremely naive to think that hot spotting or “spot burning” on a You Tube video or other social media post is going to drive angler usage of that spot over and above what is normal.

Why! Because there are no secret places. For Example: The Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has a FishMT app that maps every fishable stream/lake in MT, lists species present, survey data, access, historic angler pressure and includes photos of the waterbody. Where are the secrets? I can cite dozens of published guides listing all the waters in Montana and Yellowstone in infinite detail. Other states have similar directories both in print and online. Social media might seem to be the only place where people get their info, but that is far from reality.
Not the same. If you simply list all rivers and lakes, it gives no info about where on those bodies of water to go for good fishing, and it dumps all of them in a pile. Hotspotting from that would be looking for a needle in a haystack. This YouTuber is handing you the needle.
 

Clarkman

Huge Fly Guy
WFF Supporter
damn, and Saturday I had to share "my" 3900 acre lake with one other tiger musky angler.

In all seriousness, it's gotten pretty bad. Fortunately, there are still fisheries that are just too damn hard for the average angler to want to put in the time. For trout, it's never the fish that are difficult, often it's just the access that keeps away the "glory seekers"....There's one particular Oregon stream that a buddy and I did a ton of research on (including calling the local bio---great resources for those who care to take the time---most don't) and made it out there and had some of the best fishing for large wild trout I've had. The next year, the same. The third year, a gate was opened (previously locked), opening up what had been a 3+ mile bike ride to car/truck traffic....now? the fishing there sucks. So, sometimes it's just an access issue. No, neither of us ever hotspotted said place, so it was more of an access issue. I'm just waiting to see a damn Youtube video of it pop up...

Now I'm curious what this channel in question is from the OP.
 

jreising326

Active Member
I don't want to drive more traffic to this guys channel, so for the time being at least I'm not posting it. I am considering sending him a link to this thread in a private email and elaborating a bit more on why I consider what he is doing is poor angling etiquette and borderline unethical. If he's really doing this to make a buck and deleting anglers comments in his channel kindly suggesting Spot Burning isn't a good thing, and only allowing the comments that praise his work I have no choice but to conclude the worst case scenario.

In a nutshell that is where my grief lies, profiting off of driving angler traffic up just for the sake of driving traffic on Youtube to earn $$$. I have nothing against people making a living off their knowledge, but if they have no knowledge other than Youtube stay away from the streams I fish. Maybe if enough passionate anglers email this guy he will move on to Golf?
 

Brian Miller

Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout
WFF Supporter
Well it seems pretty clear there are 2 sides to this discussion. I find myself wondering if age and/or number of years invested is part of the equation. I don't want to bag on Millennials, but I guess maybe I just did.
After reading the @MGTom post,
WFF Reminising
Or the info we were recalling in this thread. I don't know. It's just different. I've used the web for work quite a bit, but am kinda new to this whole social media thing. I don't fb or whatever.
But I think going along with the low-hole thread people are different. As kids we were forced to watch the cast, step, repeat thing. And you waited to take your turn to get in on top. And you were admonished in front of everybody if you didn't reel in when somebody got a fish. Then you approach the run with one guy the same way. There are things to learn to be socially acceptable, like lining up at the theater. I can see where the web bypasses all that.
reviewing the reminisce, and seeing how detailed the writeup on the Sky was I got to thinking about Beckey's Alpine Guides. They are almost that detailed.

This same conversation raged back then in the climbing community (still does) because traffic jams on climbing routes were not only annoying they are dangerous. Back in the day, the biggest "secrets" in climbing were "first ascents". However climbers liked route finding. You could stand off from and glass a route to get a good idea of where it went and maybe carry a sketch (or photocopy from a guidebook) of the detailed route in a pocket to glance at while on the climb, but it was still a challenge. If someone pinned or bolted a route, later someone might feel they needed to chop them to make them "wild and fun" again. Then someone got the brilliant idea of using chalk dust on their hands and it spread like wildfire (because it worked). Once the route was "chalked" you could see nearly every hand and foot hold marked while on the route!

Will hot spotters will start spray painting Xs and -->s on rocks and trees?
 
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dustinchromers

Active Member
.
For a long time I assumed that anyone who expressed this sort of opinion had an ulterior motive. Now I'm convinced that most of them are as earnest as they sound. I'm generous on the water. Other fishermen took the time to go and see for themselves. At the very least, we have that in common. But selling knowledge—knowledge that would have been free, if earned—with half a million people who you will never have to look in the eye isn't generosity. It's something else entirely.

So now you're saying the Lunkers Guide and Ponzi scheme second hand Lunker Alerts are bad?
 

Salmo_g

WFF Supporter
Why is it bad Etiquette? Someone is sharing a good fishing spot with someone else and we call that bad etiquette. I see it the other way around. Sounds like selfishness too me. This might be a generational thing but someone that’s helping other people catch fish and find a good spots is fine by me. Use it to your advantage and find someone else’s good spot on YouTube. You are of course watching the videos.
Chris, you seem very naive. While there are few to no secret spots left in most states, there certainly are some that are very much less known to the public at large. You might think it's selfish not to share those locations with the whole internet world, but it also is just plain smart policy if quality angling and conservation are objectives.

You suggest that if the fishery is so sensitive then the person who knows it as his secret spot should forego fishing it. That suggests a very limited understanding to me.

I'll borrow a name and begin with Frenchman's Pond (which doesn't show on any map anywhere by that name, for very good reason). Frenchman's Pond is a small body of water that grows a small population of native wild trout that often reach good size. The pond produces an annual surplus of 40 trout that can be sustainably harvested, year after year while providing a quality angling experience. Because of the pond's small size and orientation and shoreline vegetation, it can only be fished from a partially submerged log. There is space for one fly fisherman or up to three spin fishing powerbait users.

It's public water, but there isn't room for everyone who would want to fish there if they knew about its existence. The number of rod days per year the pond can support varies according to how many trout are killed. One CNR fly fisher can fish it every day of the season without adversely affecting the population (assuming he's unlikely to catch enough trout to reach the 40 trout mortality threshold). Three powerbait anglers can fish it until their fishing method and success kills 40 trout. It's all downhill after that. And that is why kiss and tell fishermen, or hot spotters, are the bane of quality fishing almost every where.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
I don't want to drive more traffic to this guys channel, so for the time being at least I'm not posting it. I am considering sending him a link to this thread in a private email and elaborating a bit more on why I consider what he is doing is poor angling etiquette and borderline unethical. If he's really doing this to make a buck and deleting anglers comments in his channel kindly suggesting Spot Burning isn't a good thing, and only allowing the comments that praise his work I have no choice but to conclude the worst case scenario.

In a nutshell that is where my grief lies, profiting off of driving angler traffic up just for the sake of driving traffic on Youtube to earn $$$. I have nothing against people making a living off their knowledge, but if they have no knowledge other than Youtube stay away from the streams I fish. Maybe if enough passionate anglers email this guy he will move on to Golf?

Good luck with that. I've interacted with these types and to rationalize their narcissism they will employ the defense mechanism that they are sharing with the world and helping people. You might even get the, "these fish need advocates in the form of guys catching them and photoing them repeatedly" logic. In short they will rationalize it as doing good work for the resource and others which is total bullshit. I interviewed several fish of various sizes and not one considered me or any other jerk out there trying to hook them a conservation minded person. They had especially incriminating things to say about guides who fly that flag to the point of nausea.
 

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