Idaho Culling 90% of Wolves

gt

Active Member
And each one of those was a simple solution
One line item restoration

Whales we stopped the harvest
Eagles we got rid if DDT
Elwha. We removed dams

Also the Elwha is very far from a restoration success..

Restoring elk habitat. Involves telling thousands of landowners what they can or cannot do with their private land. Maybe even taking their land away from them.

In some locations getting rid of wild horses will be necessary and some areas it might require removing predators, revoking grazing rights. The list goes on and on..


You brought up Gray Whales.. all we did to restore them was remove predators.. you do realize that is all Idaho is planning to do...
the simple solution is to stop cattle grazing for free on our federal lands. when you put cattle in the domain of wolves, you can guess the outcome. of course no one wants to take on the cattle industry, easier to kill wolves!!!!!
 

adamcu280

Active Member
And each one of those was a simple solution
One line item restoration

Whales we stopped the harvest
Eagles we got rid if DDT
Elwha. We removed dams

Also the Elwha is very far from a restoration success..

Restoring elk habitat. Involves telling thousands of landowners what they can or cannot do with their private land. Maybe even taking their land away from them.

In some locations getting rid of wild horses will be necessary and some areas it might require removing predators, revoking grazing rights. The list goes on and on..


You brought up Gray Whales.. all we did to restore them was remove predators.. you do realize that is all Idaho is planning to do...
What an amazing oversimplification! None of the "one line item restorations" you think happened were simple at all. There was no "snap the fingers and all is fixed". I will counter over-simplify and say the reason those three items were successful is that we removed harmful human interactions on the natural environment.

The Elwha dam removal process took 20 years. I'm not sure what your measure of success is but salmon are returning to the headwaters that have been unavailable for about a century. The restoration is still in progress but there's no doubt the river is in a better, more natural state now than it was with the dams intact. So that's a success and it'll continue to improve as long as humans don't mess it up anymore.

As for the gray whales: their natural predators - mammal-eating killer whales - have always been there and we never removed them in great numbers. In fact, the population of mammal-eaters in gray whale habitat is the largest it's been in the last ~50 years and still growing. The reason grays have rebounded is that humans stopped hunting them at an unsustainable rate and let them do their thing w/o human interference. So the gray whale situation is really not at all what Idaho is planning on doing unless Idaho's planning on maintaining a healthy wolf and bear population while stopping elk hunting.
 

gt

Active Member
and if it really a concern for elk populations, the research in Yellowstone is crystal clear. wolves will target old, sick or infirm elk. healthy mature elk are not targeted by wolves but they will also look for calves in season. the excused in ID are pure unadulterated BS. but as i said before, what did you expect from those in ID?? logic and truth don't exist in that state.
 

Rob Allen

Active Member
What an amazing oversimplification! None of the "one line item restorations" you think happened were simple at all. There was no "snap the fingers and all is fixed". I will counter over-simplify and say the reason those three items were successful is that we removed harmful human interactions on the natural environment.

The Elwha dam removal process took 20 years. I'm not sure what your measure of success is but salmon are returning to the headwaters that have been unavailable for about a century. The restoration is still in progress but there's no doubt the river is in a better, more natural state now than it was with the dams intact. So that's a success and it'll continue to improve as long as humans don't mess it up anymore.

As for the gray whales: their natural predators - mammal-eating killer whales - have always been there and we never removed them in great numbers. In fact, the population of mammal-eaters in gray whale habitat is the largest it's been in the last ~50 years and still growing. The reason grays have rebounded is that humans stopped hunting them at an unsustainable rate and let them do their thing w/o human interference. So the gray whale situation is really not at all what Idaho is planning on doing unless Idaho's planning on maintaining a healthy wolf and bear population while stopping elk hunting.


Gray whales biggest predator was man! Elks biggest predator in Idaho . [email protected]!

Same same..

The Elwha still only has a small fraction of it's historic runs.. it's absolutely great work.. the habitat is well on it's way, but the runs are still deeply depressed.


Lastly man being a part of nature is your religious view.
 

O' Clarkii Stomias

Active Member
and if it really a concern for elk populations, the research in Yellowstone is crystal clear. wolves will target old, sick or infirm elk. healthy mature elk are not targeted by wolves but they will also look for calves in season.
Bullshit, what did you do, read that in Nat Geo?
 

adamcu280

Active Member
Gray whales biggest predator was man! Elks biggest predator in Idaho . [email protected]!

Same same..

The Elwha still only has a small fraction of it's historic runs.. it's absolutely great work.. the habitat is well on it's way, but the runs are still deeply depressed.


Lastly man being a part of nature is your religious view.
No, definitely not the same at all. In this context we're talking about predators that eat their prey and indigenous whalers that hunted gray whales for food never posed a threat to gray whales on a population level. The over exploitation occurred when whalers, usually non-indigenous, started hunting for commercial/industrial reasons.

The Elwha is only ten years into a restoration of a century of damage. It's obviously a work in progress. If you were expecting instant results you had unrealistic expectations.

Your religious view seems to be man at the expense of nature. You've said so many times, and not just in this thread. At least you're consistent.

There's really no point in prolonging this conversation. I'll continue to address your asinine comments but don't mistake that for me actually trying to engage with you.
 
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KillerDave

Have camera, will travel...
This stew needs more seasoning...

The "leave the animals alone and nature will find it's own balance" is at it's core an Anti-Hunting argument and by now, it should be recognized as such. Admittedly it sounds pretty good plus there is enough cherry-pickable science that our society had to try it. When the idea of reintroduction was first announced I liked it too.

On the other hand, wolf reintroduction was 26 years ago, the situation is getting worse and continues to spiral downward. Also, if the reintroduction wasn't backed by a seemingly unending supply of Federal dollars it wouldn't have persisted this long.

All this "natural balance" is freaking expensive!
 

Roper

Idiot Savant
WFF Premium
and if it really a concern for elk populations, the research in Yellowstone is crystal clear. wolves will target old, sick or infirm elk. healthy mature elk are not targeted by wolves but they will also look for calves in season. the excused in ID are pure unadulterated BS. but as i said before, what did you expect from those in ID?? logic and truth don't exist in that state.
and you think logic and truth exists in WA? Asking for a friend... :D
 

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