Break ins on the Cedar

Touchet

New Member
I have led a fairly charmed life; son of a physician and became one myself. My brother, who grew up in the same house, is a degenerate drug addict who has physically assaulted elderly and exposed himself to children while under the influence of his drugs of choice. He never got serious jail time and my parents bail him out of every crisis, only to watch the cycle repeat itself because of enabling and easy access to drugs.

Left my native Eastern Washington for Montana 15 months ago in large reason to put distance between myself and said dangerous sibling and disgust with the normalization of psychotropic drug use in WA. The “weedery”, literally the name of the pot shop, was two blocks from my last hospital. Created total chaos with patients and other addicts on the hospital campus.

Easy access to drugs and a society that embraces drug use is a tragic combination. There is no rock bottom for an addict if they still have access to drugs, that is where compassion becomes enabling and fits the definition of insanity that has been described above. This is not a socioeconomic issue, my brother’s fate is shared by multiple law school grads I know.

A marijuana legalization bill passed in the last MT voting session . . . I fear for the future of my children.
 

Canuck from Kansas

WFF Supporter
My father is Canadian and I've spent considerable time in Victoria, Vancouver and other Western Canadian cities. Honestly it's the same thing different accent. I don't see any difference from Seattle and Vancouver as far as crime, addiction issues, and homelessness. Again to be fair I've not spent any time on the eastern side of the great country of Canada so weight my experience accordingly.

And I was not suggesting bravado Joe is the answer. I was merely posing the question. As someone who works with and studied statistics I can essentially tell any story you like with the same dataset. It's a matter of manipulating perception. Again, not saying your stats are wrong just asking the questions that should be asked when reviewing said stats.

As far as people having to want to get off drugs and relapse ect. Getting off drugs is hard. I've seen some mentally strong people get sucked down and take others with them. I agree that nobody really wants to reside in the final destinations of drug addiction. Nobody sets out to be homeless. From my experience though it takes them really wanting to stop and it can take more than a couple tries. I've always had the line with those addicted that I'm here for you and compassionate but I will in no way enable you and will call out what I see as dishonesty and weakness. It's a tough thing to be an addict and someone connected to an addict. It gets a real grip on people and it's tough to break. Most people it takes an event like losing a house, a marriage, their friends, their savings, or something similar. The result has to be worse than the addiction itself for most to find the will to extricate themselves from what I can only imagine to be a personal hell.

Vancouver has a violent crime rate about 2/3 that of Seattle, property crimes about 1/2; but you are correct about the homelessness and drug addition likely being about equivalent.

I too work in statistics on a daily basis (biomedical), and I know that crime rates are not the result of "rod hours" by law enforcement, they are based on "reported crimes", ie, police reports filed by victims. So your thought that Arpaio's stats might be skewed because of more "rod hours" (guess you meant searching out/solving crime?), doesn't hold much water.

The rest of your post, gots no problem - Now it's 1:30 AM, gonna do some work, then head out with the pups for some fishin'.

cheers
 

Swimmy

Practice your craft.
WFF Supporter
So I guess the question is why are so many in our society more empathetic to the criminal than the victim in today’s world? What happened?

We done went and got woke.

What you call compassion is simply enabling and what I call people ranching or sorrow farming. You guys do it the best there in Seattle that I've seen. Allot of ten gallon all hat no cattle cowboys talking compassion. I suppose you are a social worker, armchair or otherwise? I don't want sheriff Joe for you to come to Seattle. In return all I ask is that you keep your bountiful Seattle compassion from spilling out of Seattle. Like you said, the place stinks with all the bullshit. But like they say in cattle county ,"smells like money."

Seattle, the city that allowed a group of peaceful rioters to take over 7 blocks during the summer of love. Compassion!
JSDFwlvf_o.gif
 

jasmillo

WFF Supporter
We done went and got woke.



Seattle, the city that allowed a group of peaceful rioters to take over 7 blocks during the summer of love. Compassion!
JSDFwlvf_o.gif
You have a lot of opinions on Seattle. Curious what your thoughts are on MT which clearly has a much different political environment? Yes, WA property crime rate is ~20% higher in WA but the violent crime rate is ~35% higher in MT. Thoughts? Is MT a political haven for violent people? meth addiction?

Your not going to hear me defending the political environment of Seattle, especially what’s coming out of the city council.

That said, there’s a lot of “red” in the top 50% of any crime rate by state table you look at. So how about we stop the veiled “crime issues are the product of progressive politics” arguments and start thinking about solutions. Crime is not a wedge political issue
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
.
You have a lot of opinions on Seattle. Curious what your thoughts are on MT which clearly has a much different political environment? Yes, WA property crime rate is ~20% higher in WA but the violent crime rate is ~35% higher in MT. Thoughts? Is MT a political haven for violent people? meth addiction?

Your not going to hear me defending the political environment of Seattle, especially what’s coming out of the city council.

That said, there’s a lot of “red” in the top 50% of any crime rate by state table you look at. So how about we stop the veiled “crime issues are the product of progressive politics” arguments and start thinking about solutions. Crime is not a wedge political issue

Just thinking outside the box here. Maybe Seattle should actually prosecute property crime rather than catch and release these pests back into society with little more than a new set of glamour shots and an extra line on their rap sheet? Would that work? We're talking about a city where the city attorney is assaulted outside the courthouse and doesn't press charges. I'd say Seattle's problems are home grown and a product of policy. It's like they are trying to grow these problems. Nothing veiled here. Just an outside the box suggestion. Meanwhile, back on the ranch......
 

jasmillo

WFF Supporter
.

Just thinking outside the box here. Maybe Seattle should actually prosecute property crime rather than catch and release these pests back into society with little more than a new set of glamour shots and an extra line on their rap sheet? Would that work? We're talking about a city where the city attorney is assaulted outside the courthouse and doesn't press charges. I'd say Seattle's problems are home grown and a product of policy. It's like they are trying to grow these problems. Nothing veiled here. Just an outside the box suggestion. Meanwhile, back on the ranch......

So you are saying policy is driving the issues? Then explain the crime rates in states where the political environment and (making an assumption) policy, is significantly different. Again, not hard to look at the numbers. They are readily accessible from a number of different sources. If you look at violent crime rate, 15 of the top 25 (I included DC which was #1) was red in the last presidential election. It’s 16 of the top 25 for property crimes. How about metro areas violent crime (100k pop or more), Seattle does not crack the top 50. 33 of the top 50 are from red states.

We’ll assume policy is different in these states. So why the high crime rates? Why are some of our most blue states down towards the bottom?

Seattle is easy to pick on. It’s a weekly target for Fox News. It actively puts into practice new policing solutions and sometimes they fail. Although I don’t always agree, at least their looking for new solutions. In the end, compared against its peers it is a very safe city with very low crime.

So maybe the argument should be that what they are doing is working, and well. Maybe Dallas, and Chicago, and New Orleans, and Little Rock, etc. should look to Seattle as a shining example.

I’ll tell you this. I’ve lived, worked and played in a lot of cities. Fly fisherman with cars packed full of expensive gear would fair much, much worse fishing like fisheries in other major metro areas in this country….and a lot of rural ones as well.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Drive through Seattle downtown. Drive through other towns. Seattle is abhorrent. Property crime had effectively been decriminalised. No stats needed to see the obvious. And I'm not a fox news faithful but I have two eyes and friends desperately trying to escape the woke city they helped create. It's not rocket science that when you don't prosecute property crime that it goes unchecked and grows. But that's good that it's not as bad as some areas. I mean what about........
 
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jasmillo

WFF Supporter
Drive through Seattle downtown. Drive through other towns. Seattle is abhorrent. Property crime had effectively been decriminalised. No stats needed to see the obvious.
Gotcha, so ignore facts if they don’t fit your narrative. I guess I was wrong about you chromers. Usually, you put some critical thought and consideration of reality at a minimum into your arguments.

I have lived and worked in many cities across the US over the last 20 years. If you think Seattle is “bad”, you’ve led quite the sheltered life.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Gotcha, so ignore facts if they don’t fit your narrative. I guess I was wrong about you chromers. Usually, you put some critical thought and consideration of reality at a minimum into your arguments.

I have lived and worked in many cities across the US over the last 20 years. If you think Seattle is “bad”, you’ve led quite the sheltered life.

Facts are right there in front of you and this forum is filled with break in stories. I've been around as well and Seattle is a shithole. But what about ..... Do you think letting property crime go unchecked helps? Sometimes reality is right there in front of you and not on a stats sheet cherry picked to illustrate a point. If you can't see that Seattle is a denizen of all bad things with your own eyes then we likely won't come to much common ground. I've known Seattle for forty years and it is the drugged out final form of your buddy that was once fun but is now a sad, angry, and out of touch drug addict o blaming everyone and everything for its problems. If being "sheltered" means not tolerating violations to property or persons as normal then I'm going to build a lean to on this shelter. Seattle is not normal, it is not good, it should not be normalized. We had a great city and its uninhabitable for a sheltered marshmallow like me. I'm just not hard enough I guess. I'll give you one in the fact Chicago take my all time "Chromers Most Hated American Shithole Award" and Fresno a second to that. Seattle comes in as a third on that list. However it's a big up and comer. She's trying real hard for that trophy. Portland as well being a former city of residence for me is an ugly methed out version of its younger self all toothless and tattered.
 
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Lue Taylor

Lue Taylor/dbfly
Facts are right there in front of you and this forum is filled with break in stories. I've been around as well and Seattle is a shithole. But what about ..... Do you think letting property crime go unchecked helps? Sometimes reality is right there in front of you and not on a stats sheet cherry picked to illustrate a point. If you can't see that Seattle is a denizen of all bad things with your own eyes then we likely won't come to much common ground. I've known Seattle for forty years and it is the drugged out final form of your buddy that was once fun but is now a sad, angry, and out of touch drug addict o blaming everyone and everything for its problems. If being "sheltered" means not tolerating violations to property or persons as normal then I'm going to build a lean to on this shelter. Seattle is not normal, it is not good, it should not be normalized. We had a great city and its uninhabitable for a sheltered marshmallow like me. I'm just not hard enough I guess. I'll give you one in the fact Chicago take my all time "Chromers Most Hated American Shithole Award" and Fresno a second to that. Seattle comes in as a third on that list. However it's a big up and comer. She's trying real hard for that trophy. Portland as well being a former city of residence for me is an ugly methed out version of its younger self all toothless and tattered.
Why not move back to California an take two friends with you,
 

jasmillo

WFF Supporter
Facts are right there in front of you and this forum is filled with break in stories. I've been around as well and Seattle is a shithole. But what about ..... Do you think letting property crime go unchecked helps? Sometimes reality is right there in front of you and not on a stats sheet cherry picked to illustrate a point. If you can't see that Seattle is a denizen of all bad things with your own eyes then we likely won't come to much common ground. I've known Seattle for forty years and it is the drugged out final form of your buddy that was once fun but is now a sad, angry, and out of touch drug addict o blaming everyone and everything for its problems. If being "sheltered" means not tolerating violations to property or persons as normal then I'm going to build a lean to on this shelter. Seattle is not normal, it is not good, it should not be normalized. We had a great city and its uninhabitable for a sheltered marshmallow like me. I'm just not hard enough I guess. I'll give you one in the fact Chicago take my all time "Chromers Most Hated American Shithole Award" and Fresno a second to that. Seattle comes in as a third on that list. However it's a big up and comer. She's trying real hard for that trophy. Portland as well being a former city of residence for me is an ugly methed out version of its younger self all toothless and tattered.

Again, an argument not based in reality. Stories from WFF’r’s from the Pacific NW about break ins does not make Seattle what you are painting it to be. The reality is Seattle still has one of the lowest crime rates per capita in the country if you are looking at urban areas. Period.

If we are not going to use facts…which by the way have not been cherry picked by me…let’s use a personal observation to frame my side of the argument. I would be WAY more comfortable parking my rig on the Cedar, full of gear than I would be parking it full of gear in the crappy apartment complex I lived in as a kid in some shitty town in CT nobody on this board has ever heard of unless your a big Aaron Hernandez fan. Towns and neighborhood like those are a dime a dozen up and down the east coast. These are not Seattle specific issues.

In the end I have two arguments:
  1. Policy is not the core driver of crime. Heavy handed policing is not the answer to all your prayers. If it were, states like TX would not have the crimes rates they do. You have to look elsewhere. At least cities like Seattle are trying to do so, although I don’t always agree with their approaches.
  2. Facts matter. Emotional arguments are just people whining because your city is changing. Yup, it is. Getting bigger, which brings more money, more people and yes more crime. This is not rocket science. More crimes happening but not crimes per capita. That FACT matters.
I’m the end you can just keep shouting loud but anyone with the ability to type can refute nearly everything your saying with a few searches. Those of us that have spent a significant amount of their lives in other cities and towns can also use subjective observations to refute most of the things the “Seattle of dying” crowd has to say as well. Is Seattle changing, yup. A decade of nearly unchecked growth (because of the quality of life btw) will drive change including additional crime.

So maybe you all should be railing against the roaring economy of Seattle as a driver of the additional breaking you are seeing reported in your local police blotter. In the end, per capita…..you all can be rest assured you can feel more safe and cozy in your homes and outdoor pursuits than nearly any urban dweller in the U.S.
 

dustinchromers

Active Member
Again, an argument not based in reality. Stories from WFF’r’s from the Pacific NW about break ins does not make Seattle what you are painting it to be. The reality is Seattle still has one of the lowest crime rates per capita in the country if you are looking at urban areas. Period.

If we are not going to use facts…which by the way have not been cherry picked by me…let’s use a personal observation to frame my side of the argument. I would be WAY more comfortable parking my rig on the Cedar, full of gear than I would be parking it full of gear in the crappy apartment complex I lived in as a kid in some shitty town in CT nobody on this board has ever heard of unless your a big Aaron Hernandez fan. Towns and neighborhood like those are a dime a dozen up and down the east coast. These are not Seattle specific issues.

In the end I have two arguments:
  1. Policy is not the core driver of crime. Heavy handed policing is not the answer to all your prayers. If it were, states like TX would not have the crimes rates they do. You ha e to look elsewhere. At least cities like Seattle are trying to do so, although I don’t always agree with their approaches.
  2. Facts matter. Emotional arguments are just people whining because your city is changing. Yup, it is. Getting bigger, which brings more money, more people and yes more crime. This is not rocket science. More crimes happening but not crimes per capita. That FACT matters.
I’m the end you can just keep shouting loud but anyone with the ability to type can refute nearly everything your saying with a few searches. Those of us that have spent a significant amount of their lives in other cities and towns can also use subjective observations to refute most of the things the “Seattle of dying” crowd has to say. Is Seattle changing, yup. A decade of nearly unchecked growth (because of the quality of life btw) will drive change including additional crime.

So maybe you all should be railing against the roaring economy of Seattle as a driver of the additional breaking you are seeing reported in your local police blotter. In the end, per capita…..you all can be rest assured you can feel more safe and cozy in your homes and outdoor pursuits than nearly any urban dweller in the U.S.

Facts yes. Seattle is in decline. This is a fact. Seattle is less of a nice place to live than it once was. I love it when reality is more real on paper or a Google search. This just in, the colour you know as red is now green.

But since you want to go all facts and studies I got one for you. Now it's only in it's pilot phases but an elite crackhead team of researchers are doing work in Seattle right now to develop a "Shithole metric and meters index". It sounds complicated but it's not. It's really simple. The study methods are as follows. We take a blind guy with the stick and all and send him in a cardinal vector through downtown. We put a twenty hanging out of his pocket. After a fixed distance of travel is achieved we measure the amount of human fecal matter on his shoes and the distance it took for him to get robbed. Then by using a complex system of regression analysis we can determine the index of "Shithole metrics and safety" or SMS. Research is still young but Seattle is ranking very high on the shit index and actually pretty decent on the safety index as well when compared to places like Chicago or as researchers are calling it "chiraq" due to the presence of human blood on the shoes being higher than some war zones. I'll inform all after the initial trials are over and we garner millions in funding. To understand a problem we must study it. And study it we will, with your money.
 
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jasmillo

WFF Supporter
Facts yes. Seattle is in decline. This is a fact. Seattle is less of a nice place to live than it once was. I love it when reality is more real on paper or a Google search. This just in, the colour you know as red is now green.

But since you want to go all facts and studies I got one for you. Now it's only in it's pilot phases but an elite crackhead team of researchers are doing work in Seattle right now to develop a "Shithole metric and meters index". It sounds complicated but it's not. It's really simple. The study methods are as follows. We take a blind guy with the stick and all and send him in a cardinal vector through downtown. We put a twenty hanging out of his pocket. After a fixed distance of travel is achieved we measure the amount of human fecal matter on his shoes and the distance it took for him to get robbed. Then by using a complex system of regression analysis we can determine the index of "Shithole metrics and safety" or SMS. Research is still young but Seattle is ranking very high on the shit index and actually pretty decent on the safety index as well when compared to places like Chicago or as researchers are calling it "chiraq" due to the presence of human blood on the shoes being higher than some war zones. I'll inform all after the initial trials are over and we garner millions in funding. To understand a problem we must study it. And study it we will, with your money.

Ok, your sticking to emotional argument and opinion. Obviously, you are welcome to that. What you are opining on are not facts though. Sorry. You can attempt to make them out to be facts with long winded, quasi intellectual arguments that can very easily be refuted. That’s your right to do so..and I’ll occasionally refute with reality which is my right to do as well.

I am not saying Seattle has it right. I’m also not saying it has it all wrong as those who don’t live here and have minimal exposure to true “abhorrent” (your words) places like to bully pulpit about.

It’s a big city, dealing with big city issues and compared to most others in its peer group, doing fine by all FACTUAL assessments.
 

scottybs

Active Member
Cute arguing....simply stated, poor behavior continues to be rewarded, doesn’t matter if it’s a bunch of idiots breaking into the Capitol Building or a bunch of idiots taking over city blocks. I’m sick of it. If we continue to become further and further complacent with these behaviors we will as a society crumble. Potentially into a failed state. At Jasmillo, policy does make a huge influence, I do agree it doesn’t need to be with an overly heavy hand, but embracing the nonsense needs to go.
 

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