NFR Forest Fire Fighting in the West

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Squamishpoacher

Active Member
Surfnfish...you are bang on. I hope that we are not creating an unlivable world but I can't help but fear this may be true. I often wonder if we are nearing the end of a golden age. Only time will tell. The greedy of this world are affected by short term thinking and are creating a world where the burden of their choices will rest heavily upon future generations.
 

gt

Active Member
Maybe I'm missing something or you are. The idea behind controlled burns is they are controlled. Sure, you can find a place to start it, but you need more than a controlled ending point, you need a perimeter, or that's my understanding. Not clear to me how you control a burn over hundreds/thousands of acres of steep inaccessible land.

Please point me to some references of how this is done so I can learn about this. As an FYI, I was in the Port Mellon VFD for a few years, no possible way I can see how you would have controlled burns in some of that territory, but that was many years ago, maybe there are new techniques for corralled burns that I am unaware of.

Thanks,

cheers
sorry to say, this sounds exactly like forest circus thinking...too hard, too many unknowns, and on and on. consider indigenes folks burned each and every year until the settlers put a stop to the burning and now here we are with more forest fuel than we know what to do with. start someplace and see how far we can get to eliminating forest land fuels. it that is flat terrain, so be it but get started and stop scratching your rear end is what advice i have for the forest circus.
 

Canuck from Kansas

WFF Premium
Interesting article in the Epoch Time…

View attachment 291997

sorry to say, this sounds exactly like forest circus thinking...too hard, too many unknowns, and on and on. consider indigenes folks burned each and every year until the settlers put a stop to the burning and now here we are with more forest fuel than we know what to do with. start someplace and see how far we can get to eliminating forest land fuels. it that is flat terrain, so be it but get started and stop scratching your rear end is what advice i have for the forest circus.

Must all be reading the same forestry mismanagement manual:





621545.htm





Don't get me wrong, forest mismanagement has likely played a role, but to think that prolonged drought, decreased snowpacks, and record heat don't have a disproportionate role strains logical and critical thinking. The fire season starting earlier and lasting longer has little to do with poor forestry practices that have gone on for decades.

@Roper You're on a ranch, surely you've noted how much easier it is to ignite a dry burn pile in July through October versus a damp pile in December through March. Back on the farm in Kansas, awfully hard to ignite a burn pile of hedge apple/ brush and keep it going in the cool wet months versus the hot dry... go figure.

Edit, just felt compelled to add more.

cheers
 
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quilbilly

Big Time Hater
consider indigenes folks burned each and every year until the settlers put a stop to the burning

Lol
Indigenous (note that spelling counts when you're trying to sound like you actually know something) peoples and the animals they hunted lived in valleys, not inaccessible mountains where food and game were non existent due to the fact that the broad open valleys were much more conducive to survival, which is why the settlers settled there.

It's easy to burn a prairie or a valley bottom, so they did so.
There was no point in burning a mountainside, so they didn't.
Plain and simple, you don't know what you're talking about, so just STFU for a change.
:)
 

CreekScrambler

Active Member
Drought and beetles killing trees en masse have to be a huge part of the wider fire situation. Then, there are so many human sources of ignition that didn’t exist historically and there’s also a lot more property to protect. Kind of a perfect storm.

It’s a trip to read through the Lewis & Clark journals....they constantly wrote about how the natives routinely burned the prairie. They said that the Great Plains were absolutely carpeted with wildlife.
 

surfnfish

Active Member
seems most folks viewing this through their local prism...from the antartic to the artic and across the world, ice is melting, forests are on fire, and one of our last global hopes, that great 'greensink' the Amazon, continues to be deforested in the name of soy farms. And as the artic continues to melt at an astounding rate, it is releasing huge stores of methane that had been captured in the ice, super boosting the cycle.
Note the number of US techie billionaires greasing palms in New Zealand to gain dual citizenship, which has been going on for over a decade. They didn't get to be billionaires by being stupid, they got it by being uber smart and greedy, so instead of using those fortunes to help turn this around, they are buying their way into the one place on the planet with the most environmental stability, building estates there away from the mix...which they helicoper into after flying from the US on their private jets...their personal carbon footprint that of an entire neighborhood.
Personal power and greed...same as it ever was
 

Jack MeHoff

Active Member
Many of the fires start and burn in very steep, inaccessible areas, as is the case for much of the Bootleg fire, the Jack fire, and many others. Controlled burns are great, but trying to do that over millions of acres in mountains (as opposed to the flat Scan Marsh) is likely not realistic.

Same issue with the "raking" of the forests.

cheers
i believe the theory behind Raking the forest is not to rake the whole forest but to install fire breaks BEFORE there is a fire to contain them not after the fact .
 

Peyton00

Active Member
seems most folks viewing this through their local prism...from the antartic to the artic and across the world, ice is melting, forests are on fire, and one of our last global hopes, that great 'greensink' the Amazon, continues to be deforested in the name of soy farms. And as the artic continues to melt at an astounding rate, it is releasing huge stores of methane that had been captured in the ice, super boosting the cycle.
Note the number of US techie billionaires greasing palms in New Zealand to gain dual citizenship, which has been going on for over a decade. They didn't get to be billionaires by being stupid, they got it by being uber smart and greedy, so instead of using those fortunes to help turn this around, they are buying their way into the one place on the planet with the most environmental stability, building estates there away from the mix...which they helicoper into after flying from the US on their private jets...their personal carbon footprint that of an entire neighborhood.
Personal power and greed...same as it ever was


If only they lived 10,000 yrs to enjoy the fruits of their labors.
 

quilbilly

Big Time Hater
Falun Gong....
Trump humping right wing news, with a solid dose of conspiracy theory. Big Facebbok presence funded by the non profit org that owns them, along with a large base of click farms overseas fueling the social media growth.

Who the fuck would get news from a place like that ?
Lol

Dildos....that's who.

:)
 

herkileez

WFF Premium
Some of the private timber companies over here have crews that clean up fuel, thin, and remove all the lower limbs.
My grandfather had been a fire chief downtown. At the end of the depression he had gone to running CCC fire crews at Mt. Rainier, and did during the second war.
I often have thought something like CCC camps might be a good way to help the homeless and addicted get back on their feet. At least those that want it. Room and board, pay to save and move forward with life. Could it really be more than we're spending now? In return fight fire or forestry maintenance, repair trails, clean and maintain parks, access points and waterways.
I know, from experience, that the last thing you want on a fireline is people that don't have their s#*t together. You want fit, motivated, well-trained and clear thinking people, o/wise you'll be inviting diasaster in a hurry. If we want to help unfortunates back on their feet, the highest risk occupation in the forest isn't the place to start.
 

MGTom

Living at the place of many waters
WFF Premium
I know, from experience, that the last thing you want on a fireline is people that don't have their s#*t together. You want fit, motivated, well-trained and clear thinking people, o/wise you'll be inviting diasaster in a hurry. If we want to help unfortunates back on their feet, the highest risk occupation in the forest isn't the place to start.
Probably right. My wife and daughter in law got my son to stop fire fighting when he got married.
 
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