Sea-Run Cutthroat - Silver?

#16
Zach,

Regarding targeting kokanne in the rivers. We have several good late summer runs here in Colorado that I fish. You'll find some information in a couple of my trip reports. Kokanee seem to like something with red in it. However, I've caught them on eggs and bead head princes, too. Last year, I pulled a rig from the river that someone had broken off and a big pink polar shrimp was attached to the end of the line. I suspect that it worked, too. The secret seems to be to get the fly down close to the bottom (without flossing). Kokanee seem to like to school in deeper runs and pools in the rivers. I'd try those spots first. However, last fall I took them out of a 2 foot riffle. Fish 'em early or late in the day. Heck, just go fish 'em! They don't seem to be that hard to catch! I'm originally from Knoxville (Farragut HS Class of 1970), so I would be interested in reading a report on your trip.
 
#17
I swear I had a 25 plus to hand I thought it was a silver this fish was big and fat a real nice src caught in december..damn I wish I had a camera

Is there searun Brook trout???
 
#18
troutingham said:
I swear I had a 25 plus to hand I thought it was a silver this fish was big and fat a real nice src caught in december..damn I wish I had a camera

Is there searun Brook trout???
Yes, they're called Coasters. They're like our searun cutties, but are brookies. Too cool I think. I've only read about them, but I recall that they're indeginous to the Great Lakes region and the upper Northeast coast. They are quite rare these days due to suffering the same afflictions that are affecting our steelhead and salmon out west. Trout Unlimited ran an article sometime within the last year or two about Coaster restoration efforts in MA(?).

Just found this using Google...

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/gmu/superior/Fish/Coaster Brook Trout.htm

Brian
 

ibn

Moderator
#19
Saw a show on ESPN2 where they were fishing for SRBs in NE Canada, dont recall the specifics but I bet some googling would tell you where. Looked like most of them ran around 2 or 3 pounds. Cool looking fish, they looked like a lot of fun to catch.
 
#20
Brian,
Great info there. That's one of the things I love about this site, the way people are able to offer up interesting, random info like that. I agree Ibn, those are some very cool looking fish.
Thanks for all the knowledge from everyone.
Jason
 

Zen Piscator

Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.
#22
Whoa- Zack Matthews.

One time John Wilson and I had an in-depth conversation about your casting style while 30,000 feet over the pacific.

We do have sockeye runs this far south, as I remeber, 1 sockeye made it back to the snake river in 2003. But Lake Washington sometimes has a season and sections on the columbia such as drano lake have a open fishing season for them.

We may have anadromous fish but not much in the way of 30lb browns.

Peace,
Andy
 
W

Will Atlas

Guest
#23
we have fewer and fewer anadromous fish. The Cutthroat are unlike Steelhead in the fact that they reside primarily in the estuaries, and spend alot of the year in fresh. Also, about the hybrids, it definately happens. The genetics arent as simple as fishermen would like to think. I would say that a 20" cutt is no more likely to be a hybrid that a 12" fish. I have seen photos from an ongoing research project on a creek in washington where all upstream migrating fish have to pass through a wier. There have been fish that were migrating around 12" which looked exactly like a cutthroat, maxillary past jaw and all, that when parentage analysis was run with the genetics came out to have two steelhead parents. Its never as simple as we like to make it eh? We did historically have about 2 million sockeye in the columbia, the damns all but eradicated them. There is a run in lakewashington, but we are kinda at their southern range and global warming isnt treating them well. I think like 200000 fish dissappeared between the locks and the cedar river a couple years ago because of in river mortality. The baker river farther north had some, and I actually think the stilly's fish are mostly strays? As far as kokannee go, we have lots
 

ZachMatthews

Nil desperandum, trutta semper est.
#24
Hey guys -

I'm bringing this topic back up to the front because my trip is coming up and I am beginning to gear up.

Thanks to everyone for the tips and the fisheries information. For you biologist types: my understanding is that cutthroat trout diverged from rainbows initially due to being isolated in population, presumably sometime around the Lake Missoula period towards the end of the last ice age. Since rainbows and cutties are both onchornychus mykiss, and since both inhabit the same habitat and seem to have more or less the same food source, wouldn't isolation be required to cause divergence? So I have to say I am surprised to learn that sea run cutties don't hybridize, just as I am surprised to hear that they weren't stocked. My understanding was that cutties arose only on the east slopes of the Rockies and are stocked in any waters that communicate to the Pacific - is that inaccurate?

Now, back to kokanee. I have been told that this particular run of fish also has a run of rainbows riding its coattails. These fish I know of live in a lake, and the lake is fed by the river they run in to. Immediately above the lake is a private fish ranch, a large one, where the local big wigs feed rainbow trout, but which are otherwise wild. When the kokes run, the big rainbows follow them up eating eggs. So, I am really interested to learn what kind of structure or lies kokanee try to find to spawn on, as there will surely be a bunch of pig rainbows (5-8 lbs.) below them. I'd really love to hook one of those submarines! (Hey, I live in the East, ok? :) ).

Can anyone help me on the kokanee spawn locations? Are koke eggs about the same size and shape as rainbow/brown eggs? Anyone ever heard of a "Scrambled Egg" fly? Someone recommended it to me.

Thanks a lot,
Zach Matthews
 

alpinetrout

Banned or Parked
#25
ZachMatthews said:
Since rainbows and cutties are both onchornychus mykiss, and since both inhabit the same habitat and seem to have more or less the same food source, wouldn't isolation be required to cause divergence? So I have to say I am surprised to learn that sea run cutties don't hybridize, just as I am surprised to hear that they weren't stocked. My understanding was that cutties arose only on the east slopes of the Rockies and are stocked in any waters that communicate to the Pacific - is that inaccurate?
Cutthroat are Oncorhynchus clarki, not O. mykiss. The coastal cutthroat subspecies is Oncorhynchus clarki clarki and is native to the west coast from California to Alaska. Cutthroat have several subspecies with a native range covering a huge portion of western North America.
 

ZachMatthews

Nil desperandum, trutta semper est.
#26
Wow, I had that all wrong. I had a biologist friend who once told me that rainbows were o. mykiss and cutthroat were o. mykiss clarki -- in other words a subspecies. Was he wrong or was he looking at it differently somehow? Can anyone recommend a good layperson's book on trout species and their distribution?

Thanks for the correction,
Zach
 

alpinetrout

Banned or Parked
#27
Check out Trout and Salmon of North America by Robert Behnke. It's probably the most thorough guidebook to trout, salmon, and char including maps of the original distribution of most of the various subspecies.
 

Preston

Active Member
#28
It is generally thought that the coastal cutthroat was the the ancestor of all of the other cutthroat subspecies which, having become isolated by various geological processes, began to diverge from it. The range of the cutthroats on the eastern slope of the Rockies is really quite limited compared to the area originally (and largely still) inhabited by the coastal cutthroat. From California's Eel River to the Kenai Peninsula and extending east to the crest of the coastal mountains, their range coincided closely with the zone of temperate rain forest.
 

Willie Bodger

Still, nothing clever to say...
#30
chongfk said:
I understand a lot about cutts after reading this post. Can someone enlighten me on Silver? Is silver simply resident salmon?

Thanks!
I would guess that you mean Kokanee? A silver salmon is a Coho, a Kokanee is a landlocked Silver. In basic terms, anyway.

wb
 

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