Ethical? Legal??

PT

Physhicist
#16
SuperDave said:
Let's say you did a similar "fund-raiser" by offering a ride in your hot new Mustang. You and your passenger crash. Aren't you reponsible for your passenger? Seems like you should CYA.

Just because "others have done it before" means NOTHING in court.

SuperDave
My friend could probably sue me if we flip my raft floating the Skykomish but that aint' gonna happen. As far as the ride in the Mustang is concerned you better ride solo all the time because any passenger you have can sue you for said crash.
 
#17
PT said:
My friend could probably sue me if we flip my raft floating the Skykomish but that aint' gonna happen. As far as the ride in the Mustang is concerned you better ride solo all the time because any passenger you have can sue you for said crash.[/QUOTE

Do "friends" sue friends? Maybe not. Do relatives of the injured/deceased sue "friends"? You betcha!

Watch the TV add for "Attorney Kurt B. Bernard" who specializes in personal injury lawsuits. His pitch is "Get the money you deserve." The bond of friendship doesn't hold up well when money is at issue.
"Call Kurt" and see!

SuperDave
 

CovingtonFly

B.O.H.I.C.A. bend over here it comes again
#18
I would add a line in the contract specifing the type and quantity of beer the winning bidder must bring along. It's an all day trip right? Your gonna need at least a case, oh wait, your taking someone else, two cases. Probably gonna have to go with a canned variety for the compact and light weight features. You want to make sure you have all your bases covered.
 
#19
Geez, don't tell "Attorney Kurt B. Bernard" that you were drinking before you went under the log jam.

I've been running rivers even BEFORE some of you guys were even messin' your diapers. All I'd have to do is to protect yourself in the event of a lawsuit. It could cost you more than you can imagine. Can you spell L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y?

SuperDave
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#20
Snake,

There isn't any ethics issue unless you believe there's one. As for legal, WDFW considers a person to be a guide if they take someone fishing, providing a boat, gear, instruction, or other equipment, and receives money for it. You're not getting any money, but the private, non-profit you work for is. Some lawyers might say that you're getting money, but just contributing to another entity. If WDFW has you in their sights, it could be a problem. If not, then it's not a problem.

Liability is always an issue anytime you do anything or go anywhere with other people. You can only do so much to minimize your exposure, and a general liability insurance policy is a good idea for anyone who has assets.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
 

PT

Physhicist
#21
SuperDave said:
Geez, don't tell "Attorney Kurt B. Bernard" that you were drinking before you went under the log jam.

I've been running rivers even BEFORE some of you guys were even messin' your diapers.

SuperDave
Dave, stop spamming the board with your attorney friends name.;)

The horse is dead. You are the man.

What does your rowing history have to do with this thread? Just curious.

Salmo, as usual, way to add some balance to the sewing circle.
 
#22
Salmo G.:

My "rowing history" has taught me that rivers can be dangerous and that accidents happen even to the experienced. I'm alive today because I am always mindful of the dangers just like when I am driving.

Then there was the time in '81 when we hit "Oh S-_ -_ - T Rock" in the Deschutes at Whitehorse Rapids............... We came home with an EMPTY drift boat trailer.


SuperDave
 

Snake

tryin' not to get too comfortable
#23
Well, I checked, and apparently the legal guys do require the person to sign a liability waiver, just as a CYA thing. Even though it goes against my fundamental belief in the inherent goodness of people (especially FF'ers!:cool: ), I have to admit it does make me feel better about it.

But even with that, I'm going to assess their comfort on the sticks, and watch 'em real close and tight, like a mother hen (but without being obvious about it...) I'm not going to let them even get close to log jams, sweepers, or other hazards. And I'm going to run the river the day before to check it out.

Since we're a not-for-profit, it isn't considered to be a commercial venture, so I think I'm okay there, too.

Thanks again for the great feedback and discussion! :beer2: It clued me into some things I hadn't even begun to consider.

That's why I put the question out there. There's a lot of good experience and minds on this board.:thumb: :thumb:
 
#24
I hate to remind you but you can still be sued and will have to pay court costs if you are involved in an accident even with a release from liability. The plaintiff may lose but if he doesn't have pot to "pee in" you can still be accountable for court costs and your attorney fees.

Don't blame ME for this; I didn't write the law. I was once sued by a plaintiff that lost their case yet I had to pay the above fees for the same reasons. With so many "ambulance chasers" out there, what makes you think you can't get sued over a floating accident?

When it comes to money ALL bets are off!

SuperDave
 

Citori

Piscatorial Engineer
#25
I donated a trip in my drift boat to a Rotary auction one year. I did get the definitive a$$hole, no personality, thought he had paid for fish. It was the longest most miserable day on the river of my life. Gave me nothing but respect for good guides...

Anybody can sue anybody else for anything...

My advice, based on my experience, write the check and enjoy your fishing.
 

Snake

tryin' not to get too comfortable
#26
Naw, I'm pretty committed now, and would feel like a heel backing out.

I'll hope for the best, and work hard to make sure whoever bids for the trip has a good time, and is safe. The fundraiser is invite-only, and our support base is good people. I feel pretty good about it, and I trust my instinct.

Kinda sad that we've gotten to the point where the possibility of litigation and acquisition of $$ trumps good intentions, though.

(and no need to try to discourage me to keep me from impacting the fishery.... I'm pretty much zero impact on steelhead.bawling: bawling: bawling: )
 
#27
There are even "pro bono" (for free) attornies out there that sharpen their "legal claws" on personal injury liability cases just for the experience gained. Quite often they are recent law school graduates with a HIGH WSBA (Washington State Bar Association) registration number.

Even if they lose their case they can still cost you a WHOLE LOT of money even if you win!

SuperDave
 

PT

Physhicist
#28
SuperDave said:
There are even "pro bono" (for free) attornies out there that sharpen their "legal claws" on personal injury liability cases just for the experience gained. Quite often they are recent law school graduates with a HIGH WSBA (Washington State Bar Association) registration number.

Even if they lose their case they can still cost you a WHOLE LOT of money even if you win!

SuperDave
Dude, your horse is dead. He asked for opinions, got a bunch of them, and appreciates it. You've stated the above about 5 or 6 times now in this thread. Thanks for your input. It may cause me to rethink things when I consider "donating" a trip for charity but your point has been hammered home.

Dave