Restaurant serving wild steelhead

#31
This was years ago, but I embarked on a save the wild steelhead crusade. I probably hit a dozen fish mongers around Seattle and Bellevue that were selling fresh wild steelhead. The Pike Place Market used to stack up OP wild steelhead like cordwood at every fish monger there. I left home a few years ago, so I have no idea what its like now. Anyways, I called Fish and Game on every site making sure things were on the up and up. I was told by the owner of the fish market right off of the Ave in the University District that as long as the fish is bought from an authorized tribal entity, its okay. Of all the places I checked, all were selling wild steelhead and all were legal according to Fish and Game. We are talking about a shitload of fish, especially wild Hoh river steelies which seemed to be the main supply river. And to think, the runs are moving swiftly into the depressed range on that river.:eek: The "bright side" :rolleyes: is that in a few years when the river is fished out we'll just buy the tribe a hatchery and let them manage it with hatchery mutants so they can continue to live by the traditions and conservation minded stewardship they have followed for thousands of years.;) Granted, the newcomers to the New World (us) are the ones who really did and are still doing the lions share of the damage but at some time our half stewards and co-managers as established by treaties and then Judge Boldt have to admit "way of life" is becoming a weaker rallying cry every time a set of nets is pulled out of the mouth of a river (or left in to rot for months with the native fish dead in it. As for ripping Tom for holding the fish out of the water, get in the back of the line. We've all taken a shot at Tom a time or two. That's cherry picking though. Easy. The bottom line is that Tom is passionate and puts the fish first and I feel fortunate that he and Will and our other young warriors are someday going to be the stewards and watchdogs and managers of our dwindling precious resource. For that we are lucky indeed.
 

Citori

Piscatorial Engineer
#32
If it is possible for one person's actions to have an impact on global warming (which I respectfully question, but still a widely held premise), then one person's actions can certainly impact the acceptablity of a local practice.

Wild steelhead, IMHO, are off limits - Period. I don't have any problem letting any vendor or restaurateur know my opinion, as a dissatisfied customer. I exercise this right routinely on a range of issues, and I encourage those with the courage of their convictions to do the same.

Regardless of the status of the law of the land, if there is no market for, or a negative impact on sales as a result of attempting to sell wild steelhead, then there will be no one to buy them, and no reason to kill them.

It is written, "When you've got them by the balls (wallet), their hearts and minds will follow."
 
#33
I have not had the oppertunity to fish for steelhead although I hope to in the future. I fish mostly for trout in WA, BC, and Alberta. I am sorry if my comments are "out of line". I just want to make the point that the handling of fish once caught is important to survival rate. The fact that it might only make a 5% diff in mortality rate is significant. I bet in 10 years from now young conservation minded fisherman will snear at any oldtimer pulling a wild fish out of the water just to take a picture. Also, my point wasn't to be "holier than now" first time poster. I just think that in order for companies like Puget Sound Energy to care about small negative effects on fish populations..we as fisherman need too as well. And yes being a conservation minded fisherman is a catch 22....I am the first one to except that reality as many fish that I catch and release and up dead......But picking up a fish for a picture is needless excess if you want to be taken seriously in your plight for conservation.
 
#34
cjsmith said:
If i was spearheading a campaign to stop this practice in restaurants I would definately look at my own fishing practices first. Its kind of like the environmentalist activist who preeches about global warming who owns 3 large homes and flys in private jets.....falls on deaf ears.
What the hell are you talking about? Sure those guys are lifting the fish out of the water which is harder on them, I can't argue that, but the point is to take a pic and let it go: catch and release.

According to your logic fishermen who catch and release wild steelhead are equal or similar to a restaurant serving wild steelhead. This is bullocks!
 
#35
cjsmith said:
I am the first one to except that reality as many fish that I catch and release and up dead......
Not mine. I have repeatedly caught the same steelhead and trout and salmon from the same holes on multiple days in multiple seasons in several instances. It isn't the norm at all but over the course of my life it has happened several times.

Sometimes these fish fight HARDER after I have already caught them......

I think you need to learn a little something about water temps and how they effect fish if you are fishing lakes and your releases are ending up dead. Lakes around here in the summer usually get WAY TOO WARM to release salmonoids and not have them die. Many of us here choose not to fish these lakes at these times.

BTW there are plenty of WELL educated fish & wildlife scientists and professionals on this forum that would be more than happy to explain to you the way that things are and where you are wrong and right. You throw so much out there in those posts it almost seems you are assuming most of what you say and this bothers me a lot. Look before you lead, read before you write boy!
 

TomB

Active Member
#36
For the record: I have never held a wild steelhead out of the water...ever.

Also- while i certainly don't condone breaking that law (see my posts on peoples' photos), and i hope people do think about their own fishing and practices critically, i still believe that this group of anglers, while it may be imperfect (who is?) still has a valid point in trying to stop the sale of wild steelhead
 
#38
jbuehler said:
Not mine. I have repeatedly caught the same steelhead and trout and salmon from the same holes on multiple days in multiple seasons in several instances. It isn't the norm at all but over the course of my life it has happened several times.

Sometimes these fish fight HARDER after I have already caught them......

I think you need to learn a little something about water temps and how they effect fish if you are fishing lakes and your releases are ending up dead. Lakes around here in the summer usually get WAY TOO WARM to release salmonoids and not have them die. Many of us here choose not to fish these lakes at these times.

BTW there are plenty are WELL educated fish & wildlife scientists and professionals on this forum that would be more than happy to explain to you the way that things are and where you are wrong and right. You throw so much out there in those posts it almost seems you are assuming most of what you say and this bothers me a lot. Look before you lead, read before you write boy!
Your right. I guess I am wrong about mortality rates in regards to catch and re leased fish, your statistical evidence supports your theory that since "some" of your released fish have lived than "All" of them must have lived. You should ask if some of your WELL educated fish & wildlife scientist friends want to publish that theory in their scientific journals. I guess I am not a "genius" as someone earlier stated.
 

James Mello

Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"
#39
cjsmith said:
Your right. I guess I am wrong about mortality rates in regards to catch and re leased fish, your statistical evidence supports your theory that since "some" of your released fish have lived than "All" of them must have lived. You should ask if some of your WELL educated fish & wildlife scientist friends want to publish that theory in their scientific journals. I guess I am not a "genius" as someone earlier stated.
Before this tiff gets out of hand, can we move some of this out of band? I feel a bit guilty that some of this is my fault, and as this seems to be a pretty good thread, and it would be a waste to have a flame war ruin it....
 
#40
cjsmith said:
Your right. I guess I am wrong about mortality rates in regards to catch and re leased fish, your statistical evidence supports your theory that since "some" of your released fish have lived than "All" of them must have lived. You should ask if some of your WELL educated fish & wildlife scientist friends want to publish that theory in their scientific journals. I guess I am not a "genius" as someone earlier stated.
Hi.

There are a bunch of different studies that have been done on the impact of C&R and methods of C&R on the mortality of certain fish including steelhead. Some even held by members of this forum and possibly posters in this thread I'd have to reread the threads to be suref you are interested, quite a few have been discussed on this forum and can be found using the search feature. Pretty interesting stuff. jbuehler is correct that pulling fish out of the bottom of a layered lake in the summer and releasing it increases the the risk of mortality. You are also correct that hero shots also increase mortality. Like I said, if you'd like to know the percentages, there scientifically determinted tests floating around if you look for them. :beer2:

I don't think anyone will argue that catching, marinating and then grilling a wild steelhead before releasing it does not result in 100% mortality. :rofl:

I think it is awesome that a resturaunt owner now relalizes the impact of his own actions on the steelhead runs because of the information provided by people here. That coupled with the fact he actually did something to correct it without legally having to correct it makes me feel 100% comfortable spending my hard earned dollars in his place of business.
 
#41
I think it is REDICULOUS that I can't legally lift a wild steelhead out of the water for a photo within WA State and YET I can go to a restaurant and eat it..........WTF!?!?

*I know the history of this topic fairly well and the Boldt decision et cetera I just can't stomach this paradox without tasting acid* :mad:
 

TomB

Active Member
#42
well, if the rule does what it is supposed to, which is reduce C&R impact, then I have no problem with it...a lower C&R impact results in more fishing to reach the same mortality which translates to longer seasons for C&R fishing (longer to reach our 50% of allowable take).....IF of course, the rule doesn't reduce C&R mortality, then it is pretty useless, regardless though, its the law.

Now the 50% of allowable take....well in the case of the hoh, i would point out that allowable take, even as liberally as defined as by the state and tribes, has been exceeded most years recently...that to me, is not ok.
 
#43
searun said:
Tom and all,
This issue has been dealt with to the satisfaction of WFFC, NWFA, WSC and a whole lot of individuals belonging to other clubs, via my e-mail tree. The response was strong but polite. Schwartz Brothers have removed Hoh River Steelhead from the Chandler's Crabhouse menu. We will continue to keep and eye on them though. They've been told twice before.
Thanks to all who sent in an e-mail.
Good Fishing,
Les Johnson

Les

you mentioned an e-mail tree. what is it? I would have been interested in sending a message as well. e-mail input on issues is one easy way to get involved. Thanks for your efforts.
 
#45
Exactly!

Citori said:
If it is possible for one person's actions to have an impact on global warming (which I respectfully question, but still a widely held premise), then one person's actions can certainly impact the acceptablity of a local practice.

Wild steelhead, IMHO, are off limits - Period. I don't have any problem letting any vendor or restaurateur know my opinion, as a dissatisfied customer. I exercise this right routinely on a range of issues, and I encourage those with the courage of their convictions to do the same.

Regardless of the status of the law of the land, if there is no market for, or a negative impact on sales as a result of attempting to sell wild steelhead, then there will be no one to buy them, and no reason to kill them.

It is written, "When you've got them by the balls (wallet), their hearts and minds will follow."
Several years back I was at my local Albertson's super market and noticed they were selling 'Wild Steelhead' in the meat department. Asked for the store manager to join me in conversation. Pointed out that is was a major fish and game violation to sell same here in Oregon. MAJOR fine PER FISH. Also pointed out that a lot of his customers fish for steelhead and we're required to turn all 'wild' (unclipped fish) back into the river. As a group, we be pretty 'unhappy' to find a major chain selling what 'we' (rightfully so) can't keep.

End result was he called their 'head-shed' and asked them to check it out ... two days later there wasn't a bit of 'wild steelhead' under any counter, any place in the State.:beer2:

Fred
 

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