Fishing the bottom.

ceviche

Active Member
#16
iagree

fishing deeper than that is boooooooooooring.
:rofl: iagree

Your argument is that trout are mortal and die by other causes, so who cares that C&R in the summer months is ineffective on many lowland/basin lakes? In my opinion, anglers should be concerned with the survivability of the fish they're releasing...or else C&R is a total joke. Actually, it's worse than that because it's wasteful- at least a bait fisherman eats his catch and is compelled to stop fishing by law when he reaches his limit (even if he C&R'd the fish).
iagree Once again, she nails the crux of it. If you plan on C&R'ing, the whole point is the survivability of the trout. If you're going to eat the fish, then, that's a whole other thing. However, as ascender pointed out, summer trout don't taste good. Soft meat and muddy tasting. So, then, what's the point of fishing deep when the trout are hiding there because the surface water is too warm and oxygen depleted? Maybe it's Nature's way of telling you to "Just say, 'Noooooo!'"?

As far as Kokanee are concerned, people pretty much only fish them to eat. In that case, no sin there: "Go deep and eat!" And keep posting them tactics!

--Dave E.
 

Nolan

New Member
#17
CWUGirl it was late at night when I was typing I should have explained better. There was no argument just a statement that when we release fish anytime of the year that they are going to die from lack of food, mishandling, and other predators on any lake at any time of the year. I was offering a suggestion of what to fish for when to minimize the impact if he was fishing for trout. He didn't specify where or what he was fishing for. I think he already established that he was concerned by asking how to minimize his impact on the fish. I don't want to turn this into another C&R ethics thread. I am more interested in learning more about fly fishing that deep as I could apply that to some lakes I fish.
 

chadk

Be the guide...
#18
: However, as ascender pointed out, summer trout don't taste good. Soft meat and muddy tasting. So, then, what's the point of fishing deep when the trout are hiding there because the surface water is too warm and oxygen depleted? Maybe it's Nature's way of telling you to "Just say, 'Noooooo!'"?

As far as Kokanee are concerned, people pretty much only fish them to eat. In that case, no sin there: "Go deep and eat!" And keep posting them tactics!

--Dave E.

Like the kokanee, if the trout are staying deep in the cooler water, the meat will be fine (assuming the lake in question is deep and offers this cooler water - not all will...). Just don't stick them on a stringer to slowly die and bake in the warm surface water. Bleed and put directly on ice :thumb:
 

Quan

Super Fat Cat Float Tuber
#19
There was no argument just a statement that when we release fish anytime of the year that they are going to die from lack of food, mishandling, and other predators on any lake at any time of the year.
Nolan, I think either I'm misunderstanding your point or you are misinformed. Either way, I will try to lay out the problem here. What CWUgirl is pointing out is that the act of fishing deep in lowland lakes in the summer to catch & release trout will most likely end in a dead trout, therefore, nullifying your noble C&R efforts. Essentially, during hot summer months, you may as well have bonked the trout on the head and eaten it rather than just letting it die a slow, pointless death after you "release" it.

The trout go deeper during the summer for a reason. The cooler, more oxygenated water is what sustains them during these months. When you pull a fish from the deep, you fight it on the surface, where the water is too warm and poorly oxygenated. By the time it gets to you, it is half dead and will not be able to recover and eventually die later that day, despite the fact you released it. What killed the fish? It wasn't predation. It wasn't lack of food. It was the fact that you pulled it from the deeps and exhausted and suffocated it to death. Think of it this way, it's like taking a human and wrestling him underwater until he drowns and then throwing him back on shore to "release" him.

You are correct in saying that fish do die due to lack of food and natural predation year round, but catching and releasing them during summer months will just end up in that many more fish dying needlessly.

Furthermore, CWUgirl is stating that if you are not fishing for C&R, fishing in lakes with catch limits is more noble since these rules are put in place to try to keep a balance. You will catch your limit, and then leave. This is in contrast to "nobly releasing" the 25 fish you caught on a hot summer day only to really end up killing them all.

Anyway, I agree with you Nolan - to an extent. Fishing for warmwater species like bass is a good alternative to trout during the hot summer months. But switching to trout in the mornings and evenings doesn't make any difference. The thermocline layer stays a relatively steady temperature throughout seasons with very minute variations throughout the day. It doesn't get drastically cooler at night and then drastically warmer during the day. So switching to them in the cooler times of the day doesn't necessarily save them from the warm and poorly oxygenated water. I also agree with you that we should not turn this into a C&R ethics thread, but I just wanted to try to squash that part of the thread with this post. The other part of this whole argument is that Dustin never did say he was fishing for catch & release. Maybe he's looking for some dinner. =)

On to what we're supposed to be talking about. If you are in high mountain or northern lakes, I would imagine a good way to get 50+ feet deep is to put away your fly gear and break out the lead weights and downriggers... =P Other than that, I've heard of people fishing for rockfish and halibut in the salt, and I believe they use a some type of sinking line.
 
#20
i never said how i was fishing because i presented the thread completely from a technique standpoint. I'm glad everyone here has there own ethics regarding fish, but I did not state WHERE, WHAT, or WHEN i was fishing. To many assumptions have been made and i let people decided for them self what is moral about fishing. Any fisher, by nature of the sport, is acting in efforts against the fish. Proper conservation technique would be to fence off the lake.

Thanks for all the great info though everyone. I now have some new weapons in my arsenal to go out and murder native lake fish by the hundreds when i "release" them. I couldn't do this before cause I didn't know how to get my worm tipped woolly bugger down to the fish... type 6 line here I come!
 
#21
oh and i was thinking about making my own deep water line, a lead based casting tip + 20 feet of type 3 + backing. think a setup line this would reach bottom given the time and slack?
 
#22
Dustin,

T14 is a line with tungsten powder in the coating, it sinks at 14 inches per second. I marked mine with a white Dacron uni knot coated with super glue at every five feet. So basically it hangs straight down in the water column. I watch the fish finder to see where the kokes are at what depth and adjust the line to match that depth. Use a little red, white fly that they enjoy.

Daryle
 
#23
and what is wrong with an ethics thread?

What are you're favorite techniques for fishing deep in the summers?QUOTE]

For me, this implys that you are fishing deep in the summer months because it is where the fish are and we are not talking about warm water species either. I think CWU girl gave you good advice. It is your choice what you do with it.

and yes... i do absolutely have to fish in the summer. I can see no other options.
Yes, you can fish in the summer and there are plenty of other options.
 
#24
and what is wrong with an ethics thread?

What are you're favorite techniques for fishing deep in the summers?QUOTE]

For me, this implys that you are fishing deep in the summer months because it is where the fish are and we are not talking about warm water species either. I think CWU girl gave you good advice. It is your choice what you do with it.



Yes, you can fish in the summer and there are plenty of other options.
well ill put this out there to clear some things up.... i don't plan on fishing for any trout at this depth that i dont plan on eating with friends over the fire. Im gonna look for some of that tungsten coated line.. thanks!
 

Quan

Super Fat Cat Float Tuber
#25
Here's that T-14 line at Cabela's. It's actually pretty inexpensive. Although, the stuff I linked says it only sinks 8"-9" per second... which is still fast as hell, but is contrary to the 14 ips Daryle spoke of so it may not be the same line he's talking about.

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0037441319388a.shtml

By the way, it's tungsten powder extruded as an additive in the fly line coating, not tungsten coated. That'd be one shiny bad ass looking fly line, though. =P
 

Jim Wallace

Smells like low tide.
#26
Think he meant 14 grains per foot of T-14. 12 feet would be 168 grains. 15 feet would weigh 210 grains, etc.
Entire 30 feet weighs 420 grains.

Have fun figuring out what lengths you want to cut it.
 
#27
Think he meant 14 grains per foot of T-14. 12 feet would be 168 grains. 15 feet would weigh 210 grains, etc.
Entire 30 feet weighs 420 grains.

Have fun figuring out what lengths you want to cut it.
That's what I meant Jim, sometimes this old brain and typing fingers aren't in sync, anyway the line sinks like a rock.

Daryle
 
#28
Dustin,

T14 is a line with tungsten powder in the coating, it sinks at 14 inches per second. I marked mine with a white Dacron uni knot coated with super glue at every five feet. So basically it hangs straight down in the water column. I watch the fish finder to see where the kokes are at what depth and adjust the line to match that depth. Use a little red, white fly that they enjoy.

Daryle



If you are going to use this line, why not just buy tungsten trolling line and use it. That seems to be just as much fly fishing as anything else.?

Keith
 
#30
wow im sorry i forgot that other kinds of fly fishing were banned here. I still want to pretend to cast the stuff. :beathead:
Back in the Seventies we attached weighted trolling line to our fly line so we could get down quicker for steelhead, also worked great for trolling until we had sinking tip lines, etc. But I want you to know: That stuff was very hard to cast! But I did catch lots of trout trolling with that stuff.

I wonder how that: RIO® T-14™ Super Fast Sinking Fly Line casts? I hope it does better than the stuff we created back in the seventies.

Keith
 

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