Short Head question.

#16
I am not familiar with Scandi head at all... I just read some information from the internet. They said the Scandi heads are comparable to the skagit head, but designed for stiffer rod / longer leader / touch and go cast for lighter flies. This remind me some underhand style cast. I was wondering the reason for 100/2oo grains lighter Scandi head... thanks
Being short head lines, both Skagit and Scandi casting utilize a short underhand stroke. A brief study in body mechanics here. Biceps pull, triceps push, so to speak. Biceps being the larger of the two muscles. You cannot get enough power/tip speed by pushing with the top hand on a short stroke. You can, but you'll hurt yourself.

Skagit heads typically have a shorter front taper, which puts a greater amount of mass forward to enable turnover of larger flies.

The reason the Scandi head is much lighter (for the same rod) than the Skagit head is it is used with a kiss & go, air born anchor. Single spey & snake roll casts. As such, it only needs to cast a long leader and the fly.

A Skagit head, on the other hand, is casting a 100+ grain sink tip as well as the fly. To do this on my Echo 1307, for example, I use a 27 ft 500 grain head, 13ft of T-10 (130gr) and medium to large cone head/dumbell eye flies. Water born anchors, Skagit style casts.

Dry flies, same rod, 40 ft 400 grain head, with a long front taper, 13 ft mono or floating poly leader. Kiss & go scandi style casts. The flies may, at times, be bulky and a bit wind resistant. But nothing like what a Skagit head can cast.

Now I can stretch the limits of that Scandi head by substituting a lightwieght sinking poly leader. But what am I accomplishing? The head just got longer. Meaning I need more room behind me for the D-loop. And, because of the long front taper and the lighter tip, I can't turn over anything more than lightly weighted flies. So I cannot get down like I could with the Skagit head and a heavier sink tip.

Let me clarify what I mean when I talk about turn over. I am not interested in upstream casts, dead drifting, stack mends, or any of that. As such, I want complete control of the fly from the time it hits the water. To do that requires a clean turn over.
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#17
^
You are steelhead centered in your fishing then I would guess? Some of the methods you described as "not interested in" are the opening moves that directly affect my success for salmon fishing in rivers when using sink tips.
 

yuhina

Tropical member
#18
A Skagit head, on the other hand, is casting a 100+ grain sink tip as well as the fly. To do this on my Echo 1307, for example, I use a 27 ft 500 grain head, 13ft of T-10 (130gr) and medium to large cone head/dumbell eye flies. Water born anchors, Skagit style casts.

Dry flies, same rod, 40 ft 400 grain head, with a long front taper, 13 ft mono or floating poly leader. Kiss & go scandi style casts. The flies may, at times, be bulky and a bit wind resistant. But nothing like what a Skagit head can cast.

Now I can stretch the limits of that Scandi head by substituting a lightwieght sinking poly leader. But what am I accomplishing? The head just got longer. Meaning I need more room behind me for the D-loop. And, because of the long front taper and the lighter tip, I can't turn over anything more than lightly weighted flies. So I cannot get down like I could with the Skagit head and a heavier sink tip.
Good lesson! Speyfisher, thanks a lot.:thumb:

Now I understand what you mean about the skagit head will over power the dry leader... Being unable to use sinking tip, if there is situation I have to use dry tip and heavy flies, are there any alternative way (configuration) to fix it? I have heard about you can use the heavy fly as an anchor to help the grip. But I never try it though...
 
#19
OK someone please correct me if Im wrong but doesnt Rio make a full floating version of there skagit lines? I believe they are 44' or something like that. I think they come in 100 grain increments. It seems to me that these could possibly be a good way to go. Big fly, short head, full floating. Keep in mind that the grain weight for these lines would be a TOTAL line weight NOT just the 27' head, so rod/line matches should be made with this in mind. I think MJC at the redshed carries these, maybe he can help out a little on this or you could contact him and Im sure he could give you more info. Good luck. Kevin
 
#21
^

Yes, I am steelhead oriented. Which is why you will never see an indicator attached to my line. Now will you see me doing up stream casts, stack mends, & dead drifts.

And yes, Rio does make a full floating Skagit line. I have not used one, so I can't comment on it's performance. But, like Kevin said, keep in mind the grain weight for these lines would be a TOTAL head weight NOT just the 27' head as in a regular Skagit, so rod/line matches should be made with this in mind.
 

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