dead in the water
There are things about Gary Loomis' song and dance that I didn't agree with and some I completely oppose.
I agree with that statement. A friend and I were essentially arguing with him and the other CCA representative at his last CCA bellingham presentation. His "facts" seemed fairly disingenuous on some issues and that annoyed me.

However, since then I have learned more about CCA and their goals, I've watched the work that people Like Jason are putting in, and I have grown more supportive of the organization and it's concept.

Gary is a great rabble-rouser and stump-speaker (and to be honest, a heck of an interesting guy), but thankfully CCA has other people doing the science and the planning.
laying out a strategy for becoming a player on the decision making bodies. NOF sets limits and seasons WITHOUT input from sport fishing or sport equipment interests sitting at the table. ALL commissions set up by the gov are vested in commercial fishing, that has to be balanced.

I don't think that your thoughts and feelings are all that far out from what we, at least in the North Sound CCA chapter, think. The beauty of CCA is that if something is important to you, people listen. This is not just a bunch of idiots that are devoid of the capacity to accept new ideas. If it's a good one and makes sense, then it gets discussed, run on up the flag pole to CCA at a State level where it is reviewed and, if indicated, pursued. Nets are not going completely away. However, a particularly destructive method, i.e. - gill netting, is under attack by CCA right now.

One of my questions at a CCA meeting where Frank Haw (sp?), CCA Government Relations, spoke was related to Steelhead. I think the fact that there is no consideration at NOF relating to the impacts and potential bycatch of our ESA-listed wild Steelhead given the Sockeye/Chinook netting schedules on the Skagit is completely ludicrous.

I was personally pleased with his response.



Active Member
it would be stupid of me to think i understand the strategies that are being discussed at the state level by CCA.

what i do know, however, is while fairly 'minor' issues (ghost nets and derelict crab pots) are consuming limited resources and person power, our anadramous fish continue toward extinction. i do believe there is a sense of urgency here. we don't have 5 or 10 years to strategize, build coalitions and make everyone feel like they are a part of the action.

mr loomis was more than willing to rail on about commercial gill netters, but when i pointed out that the native americans were also gill netting, the phone went silent. that is the sort of limited vision i can't support. politically, taking this on is dynamite, everyone knows that, but someone better light this fuse before many more distinct runs of anadramous fish go extinct, maybe tomorrow. the appropriate federal laws are in place to make this happen, what is missing is the political will.


still an authority on nothing
If anybody had the bollocks to go after the nets, ALL the nets, and quit tapdancing, I'd be writing checks measured by K's not fins.


Well-Known Member
Good points again Josh.

Borrowing from a reply to a friend this morning, I mentioned,
". . . consider that the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. What I mean is that it’s not likely the Commission is very open to such a radical change . . . I think it’s beneficial to support that as an intermediate goal while keeping your eye on the long term prize . . . It appears that it is an integral part of human nature to be more receptive to incremental changes than to radical or large scale changes. I think it is wise to exploit human nature in one’s strategy to change human behavior."

GT has mentioned several times that all netting needs to stop, and it needs to stop now, or salmon and steelhead will go extinct. Even if he is correct, it won't matter if the number of people who will support and act on his view are few in number. From what I have observed since former Senator Slade Gorton's 1984 attempt to ban treaty Indian gillnetting, the necessary support simply does not exist. So long as it does not exist, is there a next best alternative and if so, what is it? Harping on endlessly about a perceived single course of action that society has demonstrably rejected seems like wasted energy to me. It's primary if not only potential reward is perhaps being able to say, "I told ya' so."

CCA's process is deliberative and uses methods that have been demonstrated to be effective. That's not to say that the same process and methods will surely work in the PNW, however, they appear more likely to be so than most efforts I've watched and participated in. And here again we have anglers diverging and resisting supporting an organization because it isn't exactly like their preferred choice. That has been the perennial problem that has kept sport fishing from being an effective lobbying and legislative force. Having organizations that are exactly how we want them to be results in many "organizations of one" or no more than a few, legislatively speaking. CCA understands and uses the benefits of representing many. That limits the range of what it can do because it cannot possibly be exactly right for the masses. But if anglers will accept and support an organization that partly represents their views, they are far more likely to experience some degree of success that has been otherwise elusive.



Piscatorial Engineer
Originally posted by: Undecided Whiney Fly Fisherman Who Wants Someone Else to Carry His Water

Dear Dr. Citori,

I can't tell if I should join CCA or not. How can I be sure they will fix all the problems us fishermen face - nets, declining runs, short seasons, endangered species, global warming, international high seas unrestricted seasons, and hemorrhoids? I think I need to see results before I can commit the funds and resources to join.


Can't poop, and can't get off the pot.


Dear Poop,

I hope you don't ever need brain or open heart surgery, and want your Dr. to heal you before you decide to pay him. CCA is a bunch of guys just like you who have decided that restoring fish runs is worth one more try, and have made the decision to write the $25 check instead of buying that electric bobbin threader retractor attachment this month. Those guys, like me, have decided that they are going to get off the pot, and do something rather than just sit there and wait for their legs to fall asleep. No one else has been able to accomplish much, but with over 5,000 other members, at least we are in good company. Besides, those CCA guys throw a damn skippy banquet and auction every year!

My advice is to get your ass off the pot, write the check, and make it happen instead of waiting for someone (no one) else to do it for you.


Ed Call

Well-Known Member
Citori says it well for sure, but Salmo g, never sell yourself short. I for one seek out your posts in the search tool because I generally get what you are saying and I like how you say it.

Oh, and thanks to Dr. C for your personal message about some of my own questions. I'm excited that the Kitsap chapter is in the pipeline. I'm ready to poop, I'm not much for sitting around on the pot or anywhere this ferry waiting line that has gone on now for nearly two and a half hours.

Chris Bellows

Your Preferred WFF Poster
much has been made of why sportfishermen cannot unite. while there are many differences due to the way we wish, what we fish for, etc... i think this thread (and pm's) show another reason.

the pro-cca people make a valid point of starting off with small bites, but fail when some (citori) call people questioning cca uneducated (via pm), use insults and believe that any dissent of cca positions is the same as no support of fish recovery.

on the other side are the people who will not join anything if they do not go after all netting (or whatever their pet issue is), which ignores many of the other problems facing our wild salmon and actual gains that can be made. i think many of us have a foot in this side of the debate. passion often breeds this, and unfortunetely passionionate people is what our fish stocks need.

there is an all-or-none nature in these discussions that imo are the root of the fragmentation of sportfishing. there are many different views on how fisheries should be managed, and there will always be differences that make joining together tough. i'm as guilty as many on this.

luckily, there are people like josh root, hookedonafly, and salmo g... who realize that discussion about cca, especially people bringing up reservations, have the ability to make the organization stronger and bring more people into the organization. bringing up issues does not make the mission of cca harder, and the infusion of ideas can only be a positive. seeing them join even with strong reservations about some of the positions has given me a new perspective about cca. this is a positive and will do more good than the "join or you're just a whiny [email protected]#$ who doesn't care about fish recovery."

fyi, i will be likely be joining cca thanks to the rational discussions.... luckily i leave personal issues out of these decisions, because being called "uneducated" via pm is not a good way to increase membership in cca. i will always have issue with some of cca's current positions on hatchery production, but that doesn't equate to a lack of support of some of their other positions.

Ed Call

Well-Known Member
Amen brother topwater, you speak the gospel in my opinion. I think I'm joining not because CCA is spot on for everything I think needs to be tackled, but because I can hopefully help work on the big picture with some small progressive steps in at least one of the right directions.


Well-Known Member

Thanks for your post. I don't see ever seeing eye to eye with CCA, but I stopped worrying about that. Their process and methods have a track record of working, and I'm willing to support that. It's a tripod of Legislative, legal, and membership. What with club and organization annual dues running $30 -40, $25 to CCA is barely half a tank of gas in the Subaru. I'm willing to spend another $25 a year to help boost the membership leg of that tripod. If they are successful at one bite at the apple of fish management it will have been worth it. And with one successful bite, the probability of another success increases. Like domino theory I guess.


Ed Call

Well-Known Member
I just recieved notice today that there will be a Kitsap Chapter CCA meeting on Thursday August 28th at the Sportsman's Warehouse in Silverdale, WA from 6:30 to 8pm. I am putting it onto my calendar so I can attend and see what I've been missing. If anyone from North Kitsap wants to carpool, just let me know. I live about 3 miles south of the land area mass infamously known as Point No Point.

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